Onryo's Hunting Ability

[VulgarMonkey]

So my understanding on the Onryo is when it extinguishes every third firelight, it will immediately hunt (unless there is another lit firelight or crucifix nearby, as it will blow out/consume that instead). This didn't happen on a recent game, where it blew out the only firelight in the room 3 times, then didn't hunt (nor burn the crucifix in the room).

I've seen videos where the Onryo immediately tried to hunt on the third firelight extinguish. However, they used 3 different firelights (not the same one being lit 3 times) in the video. Is this the catch? We needed to use 3 different lit firelights for the test? And not light the same one, and have it extinguished, 3 times?

[Kaisoku]

I think the thing is that it can start to chain firelights... essentially, it blows out a firelight, then immediately looks for another firelight to blow out. If it finds one nearby it will blow that one out and then immediately look for yet another one.. if there's a third, it will blow that out and then try to start a hunt (burning a cross if there is one nearby).

I've not seen it myself, though... that's just my recollection from what I think one of the devs had said on someone's stream (Insym? Psycho?), or maybe the streamer relaying what he'd been told from a dev and then tried testing on stream or something.

Also, I think the more people that are dead, either the quicker it will blow out candles, or it needs less to trigger the special hunt (I forget which, or maybe it's both).

Hopefully someone with more experience with this aspect of the Onryo can confirm it for you.

[Watcher Rat]

One possibility that I can think of is that the Onryo actually blew out four lights without anyone realizing: your firelight/candle, and your lighter. If someone stood with the lighter on (or a match), the ghost will blow that out instead of hunting as well. After the third extinguish, it's just a chance to hunt each fire, so it's possible the ghost blew out candles, then blew out a lighter without anyone thinking about it. At the very least, that's what I see confuse people most often with the Onryo test.

[VulgarMonkey]

Originally posted by Watcher Rat:

One possibility that I can think of is that the Onryo actually blew out four lights without anyone realizing: your firelight/candle, and your lighter. If someone stood with the lighter on (or a match), the ghost will blow that out instead of hunting as well. After the third extinguish, it's just a chance to hunt each fire, so it's possible the ghost blew out candles, then blew out a lighter without anyone thinking about it. At the very least, that's what I see confuse people most often with the Onryo test.

A fair possibility - although I wasn't near the firelight the third time it blew out, which makes me think it was unlikely I had the lighter on (I would have only had it on to light the candle in this instance).

Which brings me to realise a more likely conclusion: I was outside the investigation area the third time the firelight went out. A hunt can't start without at least one player within the investigation area - which I presume over-rules the Onryo's 'guaranteed hunt' ability. While not remember exact details, I presume this is what happened.

[Sally]

The number of times it blows something out doesn't matter, the ability is simply, it can not hunt if a firelight is burning in the area it is starting its hunt from.

it might blow out 1, maybe 50, but it will only be able to hunt if all the candles are out. just keep lighting them and if you don't get hunted, you know what it is.

[Watcher Rat]

Originally posted by Sally:

The number of times it blows something out doesn't matter, the ability is simply, it can not hunt if a firelight is burning in the area it is starting its hunt from.

it might blow out 1, maybe 50, but it will only be able to hunt if all the candles are out. just keep lighting them and if you don't get hunted, you know what it is.

In this case, it does...here's the info from the wiki:

If the Onryo attempts a hunt within 4 metres of any type of flame, it will blow out the flame instead, and the hunt will fail. If both a crucifix and a flame are within range, the flame will take priority over the crucifix for preventing the hunt.

Every third flame that the Onryo blows out will cause it to attempt to initiate a hunt, regardless of current average sanity. This hunt can be blocked by normal prevention methods (e.g. a crucifix) or another flame.

Note that there can be a delay of up to ~6 seconds before the hunt actually initiates.
If a flame prevents a hunt or is blown out during a hunt, it will count towards the three-flame rule.

I've always believed that, after the third flame, it was a chance for each flame after that, but the wiki does imply otherwise. That said, once you are under 60% sanity, flames will get blown out faster since the ghost can also attempt to hunt independently. An Onryo likely also had a heightened chance to be drawn toward flame to extinguish it, but it most definitely can hunt with a lit flame if the flame is far enough away from it.

[Maya-Neko]

As far as i remember cj only said to Insym, that it can't hunt before the 3rd candle blowout, but i can't remember, if it is a 100% every 3rd candle or if it is just a chance for every candle from that point onwards. I wouldn't be surprised, if the 3 candles behavior is just a grace period which doesn' replenish after each attempt (though i can't say for sure)

[VulgarMonkey]

Originally posted by Watcher Rat:

Originally posted by Sally:

The number of times it blows something out doesn't matter, the ability is simply, it can not hunt if a firelight is burning in the area it is starting its hunt from.

it might blow out 1, maybe 50, but it will only be able to hunt if all the candles are out. just keep lighting them and if you don't get hunted, you know what it is.

In this case, it does...here's the info from the wiki:

If the Onryo attempts a hunt within 4 metres of any type of flame, it will blow out the flame instead, and the hunt will fail. If both a crucifix and a flame are within range, the flame will take priority over the crucifix for preventing the hunt.

Every third flame that the Onryo blows out will cause it to attempt to initiate a hunt, regardless of current average sanity. This hunt can be blocked by normal prevention methods (e.g. a crucifix) or another flame.

Note that there can be a delay of up to ~6 seconds before the hunt actually initiates.
If a flame prevents a hunt or is blown out during a hunt, it will count towards the three-flame rule.

I've always believed that, after the third flame, it was a chance for each flame after that, but the wiki does imply otherwise. That said, once you are under 60% sanity, flames will get blown out faster since the ghost can also attempt to hunt independently. An Onryo likely also had a heightened chance to be drawn toward flame to extinguish it, but it most definitely can hunt with a lit flame if the flame is far enough away from it.

So looking at this video the Onryo (presumably) hunts almost immediately after the third firelight is blown out.

They are of course using 3 separate firelights in the video, which I now suspect could be a requirement. The wiki doesn't imply it needs to be different firelights, instead specifying 'flames'. That distinction led me to believe you could re-light the same firelight 3 times and have the Onryo initiate it's ability after extinguishing it a 3rd time. However, the wiki may have have specified 'flame' because map-specific objects that can be lit may also count (and aren't technically 'firelights' - which could be considered exclusively the term used for the player item in this instance)

I now bring 3 firelights with me everywhere. I will get to the bottom of this.

Another possibility, in my original situation which sparked this, is that we were within hunting range of the Onryo (I don't think this is likely but can't rule it out) and in-between the Onryo blowing out the firelight a second time, and me re-lighting it for a 3rd, it initiated a hunt on it's own accord. This would have caused the 3rdextinguish of the firelight to cancel the hunt, and not count as part of the 3 extinguishes required to start a hunt as part of it's ability.

If this is a possible scenario things get murky, because I wonder then if extinguishing a 3rd flame, as part of preventing an organic hunt and not just an interaction, would then still trigger Onryo's hunt ability. It of course can't actually hunt, because after trying to (and being prevented) with the 3rd extinguish, the hunt cooldown takes affect (which is longer than the window for the Onryo ability hunt post-3rd extinguish).

This leads me to wonder if, and exactly when, the flame-count for the ability 'resets'. Was it when the hunt was attempted (which would mean the flame which was extinguished to the prevent the hunt is the new '1')? Does a hunt-preventing extinguish count towards the ability if the hunt was an organic hunt and not part of the ability? Does a 4th extinguish, preventing a hunt, count as the 1st in a new set of 3? Do only standard 'interactions' count and not any extinguishes related to this ability? Damn Onryo why are you so complicated.

What I thought was going to be simply "light the candle a few times and watch the crucifix" has become a rabbit hole and I love it. I'm way too invested but I don't care. I'll figure this out.

[VulgarMonkey]

No one asked but I'm lame and have found more out about this. Psycho's video shows that the 3-candle blowout rule is a definite thing either with the same, or different, firelights. The ghost hunts (from outside blowout-prevention range) within the supposed grace period after extinguishing a 3rd firelight. He also provides an example of the Onryo extinguishing his lighter as part of the firelight hunt prevention.

Also, according to Psycho, extinguishing a flame as part of hunt prevention counts towards the next 3 required to trigger a hunt. Flames that get blown out during hunts also count.

According to the video comments an Onryo will supposedly hunt as a result of it's unique ability, if 3 flames are extinguished, after the mandatory 'stand-down' period between hunts (if 3 firelights were blown out during the hunt/'stand-down' period). Which basically means a hunt triggered by 3 extinguishes will simply wait to trigger, ignoring the supposed period of time when it should hunt normally after the 3rd extinguish.

Can't confirm the last two points as they weren't proven in the video - which is a shame as one of them is a claim Psycho made himself, but didn't bother to prove with the so-called 'deep dive'.