Thx Devs, but grind is not gameplay....

[Zothen]

Dear Devs, thanks for the Grind-update.... but its not really ...gameplay. It doesnt add anything meaningful to the gameplay.
Once we have the good tools back you notice that the "greatestest update" is more a Nothing Burger!

Multiple new locations would have been a better time investment.
Or - god forbid - even workshop support for player created locations.

How underwhelming is the update? Read other opinions:

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Basically we unlocked everything in like 3 hours (pretty much like the current T1-progression) and after 10 hours we had so much money, that it got worthless, because we never really lost enough equipment anymore to get any money problems.

[Maya-Neko]

Sounds like you've missed the past 30 years of gaming. Grind was always a part of games and progression as a reward mechanism is still one of the most used features as of today.

You don't need to like it, but it has proven to be extremely popular amongst pretty much any genre.

[Wolfie]

completely agree, they missed the mark on this one, nobody wants to grind for a better flashlight, do they expect casuals who would play a few games a week if that, few games a month as a party game, do they expect those people to grind it out?

tried a lobby last night with my bro, we got 1 crappy flashlight between us and couldn't do anything, i loved this game but this update is lame

[AllergicToBrainRot]

Grind is not gameplay? This has to be a bait thread.

[Han Daimond]

Even Pac-Man had players grind for hi-scores. It is part of the gameplay in a videogame.

[責任森]

this is the exact thing I've talked about it, criticise it yet people are still cheering the update everywhere.

Look I get it that we get item reworks and some lightning changes that makes the game unplayable, I understand it'd be cool to have but it's much more of a small update rather than this biggest update they have talked about.

It's all trying to hype this cashgrab that in 6 months they have only released a mini update and it's mad buggy + can't play the game on my end it lags crazy, no it's not msaa.

I honestly had higher hopes for this game now being 4 people I thought they could do better what the original dev did in 2 months was the core game that still exists today, just changed a lot.

I'm just disappointed and judging by everyone else I do think the fanbase just straightforward deserve it and nothing more.

If anything they should use this positivity better by implementing small updates every 6 months and have some made up reasons more.

[Nemeasium]

The grind in games is normally fine and this is defiantly a game you can GRIND but most people don't, they play a bit here and there and they are going to be stuck with pretty mediocre stuff. I'm currently grinding and its feeling like its taking a while..... cant imagine how slow it is playing on less the professional.....

[BTxNitro]

New items are cool, but dang, we get reset to zero and can't even buy a pack of matches. Matches are pretty much free in real life. I hardly have time to play games anymore, and it's sure going to take a lot of time to get to where we had as a default.

[Hull Breach]

I started to play phasmo 1 day before the ascension update, so I don't really know how it was before.
I don't mind some progression and light grinding, but I hope that I won't be forced to play 100+ hours to unlock everything.

[TangOscar]

Grind? There is no grind. T1 is unlocked with the same effort as in old Phasmo. If you are good enough, play on professional, just do a 3-star photo of the bone and every activity.
With the correct ghost you get ~1200 $/exp easily within the typical 10-15 minutes.

[Kaisoku]

Some folks have hit level 90+ within the first 24 hours. I think you need like lvl 64 to get tier 3 in all the evidence items?

Personally, I don't mind some form of progression: you start off with the weaker stuff and after time you can get the better stuff, etc.
I think the process turns into "grind" when it doesn't feel like it comes naturally from playing, but instead feels like you are being hobbled.

There's two things that are creating this progression:

- A 'realistic' feel of "you need money to buy things and unlock things". You can't get everything right away because you can't afford it. You are poor to start off. Get some cash, then you can buy the higher tiers and then buy the equipment itself after that.

- A 'gamist' effect of level locking. This is perhaps to denote a level of "experience". It could potentially have a more lore-based mechanic of having "reputation" or "company experience" that unlocks things over time... but the drip feed of unlocking isn't usually how that happens, it's often more like... "get your job hours in, get your higher grade/certificate/promotion, now you get access to a new suite of things".

I think if you had ACTUAL grades that had to be increased, and they unlocked a bunch of tools and things at once, then it would feel more immersive and less like you are "grinding levels". But that's a LOT of work, for a game that's a few bucks and an update that already had to introduce 40+ new items with visuals, sounds, mechanics, etc, etc...

I think we will grind for a week or two and then folks will be faced with the choice of "do I continue playing over and over with all the best equipment, or did I like that process enough to Prestige for a few bonuses and grind up again?"... most folks that hate the grind and want to play like they used to will likely just keeping playing past 100 and use the equipment they want from there out.

[Zothen]

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Sounds like you've missed the past 30 years of gaming. Grind was always a part of games and progression as a reward mechanism

Well, IF you really had an understanding of "gaming 30 years ago" you would know about the negative definition of "grind" in games before the corpos and the 80hrs/week MMO-sweet lords turned the narrative into "grind is mandatory in games".

So yes, grind needs to be seen as the time-wasting, artificial lenght-stretching and monotous activities which only purpose is to feed your monkey brain with sugar so you keep playing.

And no matter how you try to twist it - this update didnt add anything to the core gameplay but gring. Taking away the tools the game is balanced around so you have to waste your lifetime just to "earn" them back. Laughable.

I like how you swung the "30 years ago"-argument like a bat and how it swung around right into your face. Well done.

[WolfLink0370]

Originally posted by Zothen:

Dear Devs, thanks for the Grind-update.... but its not really ...gameplay. It doesnt add anything meaningful to the gameplay.
Once we have the good tools back you notice that the "greatestest update" is more a Nothing Burger!

Multiple new locations would have been a better time investment.
Or - god forbid - even workshop support for player created locations.

We've had ample advance notice that the game was taking this direction - now levels ACTUALLY mean something instead of just being a number you can inflate with a static 100xp per level and with unlocks past level 25. There is actually some meat behind leveling up, and they obviously want that to be properly earned.

As for new locations - they aren't gonna be able to roll them out nearly as quickly anymore... or did you miss the fact that they've stopped using premade assets and instead make their own? Eventually the whole game will be custom assets even, so expect the old maps to go at some point too.

And as for workshop - that's straight up an impossible ask now. Console versions straight up would not be able to make/use that content, and having such a clear disconnect in the community is something they will obviously avoid. It also ties back to my earlier point as well - where the premade assets used for workshop maps would stand out against the custom assets of the main game... and likely in the worst way possible, and that's not even mentioning the extensive testing they must do in order to ensure the ghost doesn't do something dumb like path out of bounds

[Zothen]

Originally posted by WolfLink0370:

As for new locations - they aren't gonna be able to roll them out nearly as quickly anymore... or did you miss the fact that they've stopped using premade assets and instead make their own? Eventually the whole game will be custom assets even, so expect the old maps to go at some point too.

Oh please, just shut up! You have obviously no clue what youre talking about. You never used e.g. Unity, 3Dmax/Blender/Maya!
You have NO clue what time it takes. And how very possible it would be to provide the Unity tools to make own locations. How do you think can amateur teams spit out phasmo clones so fast? Sorry, but yes I work with that stuff.

Objecting for objections sake. Go away, troll.
But yes, the devs will probably not go that way because it seems they urgently want to stay in control of the content alone. Its a money thing.

[Maya-Neko]

Originally posted by 責任森:

this is the exact thing I've talked about it, criticise it yet people are still cheering the update everywhere.

So we're not allowed to have an opinion, if it is not about disliking something?

Or are you confused about going into a discussion section and then discussions start to appear around your comments? Like if you only want to throw your opinion in, but not talk to others about it, then just open a Thread and just leave it without ever coming back.

Originally posted by 責任森:

Look I get it that we get item reworks and some lightning changes that makes the game unplayable, I understand it'd be cool to have but it's much more of a small update rather than this biggest update they have talked about.

Obviously you doesn't get it. Developers need feedback from both sides, the ones who like it and the ones who don't like it. If everyone, who likes it just shuts their mouth, then devs can easily get the impression, that they need to completely rework it again, even when like 90% of the playerbase might actually like it.

And you've to pretty much expect, that most people will disagree with you, if you're taking the less popular path and i won't touch you with kid gloves, just because you can't handle my opinion.

And it is playable for the vast majority of players, though that is not even part of this discussion here, as they will be fixed soon anyway, but the progression system itself will still continue to exist.

Originally posted by Hull Breach:

I started to play phasmo 1 day before the ascension update, so I don't really know how it was before.
I don't mind some progression and light grinding, but I hope that I won't be forced to play 100+ hours to unlock everything.

Basically we unlocked everything in like 3 hours (pretty much like the current T1-progression) and after 10 hours we had so much money, that it got worthless, because we never really lost enough equipment anymore to get any money problems.

[WolfLink0370]

Originally posted by Zothen:

Originally posted by WolfLink0370:

As for new locations - they aren't gonna be able to roll them out nearly as quickly anymore... or did you miss the fact that they've stopped using premade assets and instead make their own? Eventually the whole game will be custom assets even, so expect the old maps to go at some point too.

Oh please, just shut up! You have obviously no clue what youre talking about. You never used e.g. Unity, 3Dmax/Blender/Maya!
You have NO clue what time it takes. And how very possible it would be to provide the Unity tools to make own locations. How do you think can amateur teams spit out phasmo clones so fast? Sorry, but yes I work with that stuff.

You're right - I don't know how blender works... I'm not an artist. I don't know how much time it takes...

What I do know however... is that pre-made assets are not going to be used anymore, which in turn means map making will be slower... pretty safe conclusion to make there. And like any good art - you don't rush the final product to meet someones expectations... you stop when YOU think it is ready for presentation... and nobody else.