Cool game, but needs more content. Also too easy with 4 players to the point of being broken

[MacKaris]

Really enjoyed for a couple of evenings, but now that we've got the gist of it, it has turned into a somewhat banal routine: Start new map -> grab the key, everyone takes a thermometer. At least one person takes the video cam, someone takes a glow stick, UV light and so on. Run straight into the building, find the room with the temp lower than 10C. Shouldn't take long. On the larger maps one person may have to stay in the van to guide the others, but in the small maps there's no need because you can't get lost. Once the correct room has been found, mark it with the glow stick (it'll be easy to spot later) dump all the ♥♥♥♥ in the room, most importantly the video cam. Head back to the van, grab the book, spirit box, EMF reader and UV light if you didn't manage all of that the first time, also check for orbs while you're there. Head back to the room, dump all the kit on the floor, and start calling the ghost's name. Doesn't have to be anything intelligent, the ghost seems to react to its name regardless of how you use it. It usually only takes a couple of minutes before you have all the required evidence, then you can head back to the van and call it quits. That's it, solved. The fingerprints can be tricky to find, but since the journal is a bit broken you can cheat with the photo camera and take random snapshots with a couple of UV lights around, you'll see a photo automatically titled "fingerprints" if there are any.

The game needs 1. more ghost types 2. more evidence types 3. more maps 4. more ways the ghosts can manifest and interact with the environment. This would add more uncertainty to where and how you will witness the ghost's presence. 5. Some actual use for all the motion sensors, parabolic sound sensors, head cams, infrared light sensors, candles etc, now they are all just completely pointless. 6. perhaps faster movement speed for the players, which can be balanced by adding a realistic stamina and related effects that prevent people from running around frivolously. Currently it's just a bit silly how it takes an absolute eternity to haul stuff from the van to the haunted room in the larger maps, and how you can't actually run even if you're being chased by a ghost. With those improvements this could be a genuinely great game with potentially infinite replayability - now it's just an interesting concept, fun for a couple of hours, but not much more.

[Myth Alric]

If money and xp don't matter, then why are you so afraid of losing out if you die? I am not sure why you are drawing an arbitrary line that the first objective counts but none of the other ones do, even though they make up the majority of the job.

It should also be pointed out, that you really are not putting yourself at that much risk. Typically while playing with the goal to get all objectives and as many pictures as possible, a person dies once every 20-40 games or so.

I don't want to tell anyone how to play the game because people can enjoy the game however they want. That said, you are saying there isn't enough content and it is too easy, while you are skipping most of the content and playing easy mode. I feel like if you just challenge yourself to do the actual jobs as intended, you would enjoy the game more.

[Fey Dragonette]

only thing I disagree with is that you think you can get lost on the large maps.

The map layouts are pretty easy to remember after your first run or two

[MacKaris]

Publicado originalmente por Myth Alric:

If money and xp don't matter, then why are you so afraid of losing out if you die? I am not sure why you are drawing an arbitrary line that the first objective counts but none of the other ones do, even though they make up the majority of the job.

It should also be pointed out, that you really are not putting yourself at that much risk. Typically while playing with the goal to get all objectives and as many pictures as possible, a person dies once every 20-40 games or so.

I don't want to tell anyone how to play the game because people can enjoy the game however they want. That said, you are saying there isn't enough content and it is too easy, while you are skipping most of the content and playing easy mode. I feel like if you just challenge yourself to do the actual jobs as intended, you would enjoy the game more.

Well it's not a completely arbitrary line, now is it? I've already stated why. The first and foremost objective is to find out what type the ghost is. This is done by collecting various evidence, and the combination of those then determines the type. Like I've said before, this is a very nice game mechanic (or actually mechanism, to use the correct term), and it's the entire basis and foundation for the game. The rest of the objectives don't have anything to do with the main objective what so ever, they feel like mere afterthoughts. One of the objectives could just as well be "Turn on the television and sing 'happy birthday' while doing 13 squats." Yes that would be an objective too but honestly I wouldn't bother with that any more that I feel like I want to bother with the "take a picture of a dirty sink" objective. Like I said, if you hold that it's adamant to always get all the objectives, I feel like it's like playing a game for the sake of collecting all the Steam achievements. I know apparently some people actually do that, but I really really don't see the appeal in that. A bit like people who watch movies like 34 times frame by frame trying to find some continuation bloopers in there. Dawg I've already seen the film once, that's usually enough even if I might have missed some minor little detail somewhere. If the line actually WAS arbitrary, meaning it wasn't possible to find out the ghost's type at all and it wasn't an objective, and all the objectives would be those 1.get a ghost to walk through salt 2.take photo of a ghost 3.take picture of dirty sink, then the whole game would just be utter rubbish. The "deducing the ghost's type by the available evidence" IS the entire game here, that's why I consider that one to be the MAIN OBJECTIVE, the one that determines if the mission was a success or a failure, while pretty much disregarding the other ones. I hope I finally made myself clear here.

Money doesn't matter after you have all the gear, but obviously it starts to matter if you keep on dying chasing the dirty sink or the other nonsense stretch-goals, you lose all your stuff and have to re-buy it. And even if you didn't lose the stuff, I'm sort of inclined to believe you are actually supposed to avoid dying. Like I said before, it's supposed to be a horror game. If you don't care if you live or die then where exactly is the horror in that?

And good for you if in your games it's such a rare thing for someone to die, but then I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue for? I'm saying the game gets way too straightforward after you've figured out how to determine the ghost's type, and then you're just saying the same thing by asserting there's hardly any risk involved even if you do meticulously pursue all the objectives? But like you said, I can't really tell you how to enjoy the game, and if you feel like everything is just right and you're having fun running around the maps for ages trying to find the bone or getting a picture of the ghost or a dirty sink even after you've actually completed the main objective, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[♡Pure♡]

i read it til he said bring a glowstick.

[Myth Alric]

I am not sure how finding evidence of a ghost haunting a house is unrelated to your job as a ghost hunter. That is literally your job.

The way you are playing is like getting the ending of Mass effect 2 where your ship blows up, all the crew dies and in the main character dies too, because you didn't do any of the character's side quests or upgraded the ship at all. Sure you can play games without ever doing anything except the main quest line, but that isn't really how most games are designed to be played.

I am just saying the game is more tense and more engaging and complex, if you actually try to complete the assigned objectives the game gives you, instead of bailing out early. You make it sound like a death sentence if you try to actually do the full job but my point it that it isn't that dangerous. There is far more risk than just getting into the game and popping into the house for a minute then bailing though.

You are only doing like 10% of the game so you are missing out on a lot of stuff. Games that should take 10-20 minutes you are doing in 2 minutes. Of course there is a lack of substance because you are choosing to avoid all of it.

[Tyler Zeta]

Publicado originalmente por Myth Alric:

You are missing out on most of the game if you are not finishing all the objectives and getting a picture of the ghost on every game. To have a 'complete' run you should do all the objectives, and get a ghost photo and probably even a couple of interaction shots. If you don't do that you basically ditched early.

And even if it's not an objective it pays good to get a photo of the ghost or something else anyway.

[>< V ><]

All objectives are optional.

There is no requirement to finish any of them. One can leave at anytime without penalty. The only fail state of the game is dying.

The game is fun, but it is easy. There are no deep mechanics. People have made up many things about the mechanics of this game that are not true. Like talking during a ghost hunt attracts the ghost to you. It doesn't. Whether you talk globally, through the spirit box, none of it matters. Or flashlights and sounds drawing the ghost to you. They don't. People are making up many mechanics that are simply not in the game.

The ghost is also extremely easy to lose. If you want to understand the simplicity of the ghost hunt mechanics, then team up with a friend, have one of you die so they can observe what the ghost does when it hunts the live player. It's basic pathing that the ghost doesn't deviate from unless they see a player. And if they do chase a player and line of sight is broken, the ghost just goes back to it's pathing.

Yea, sometimes you may be hiding and the ghost gets you and that's simply because you hid in an area that is in the ghosts pre-determined pathing.

I played the prison map the other day and I thought it was a complete joke (as are all big maps). Because once you understand the actual mechanics of the ghost, there is really no point in even hiding anymore. Just turn a corner and break line of sight. With big maps, the chance of you being in the pre-determined pathing of the ghost is much smaller than the small maps, which is why they are easier.

Overall, it's a fun little game, but very simple. I think the use of ghosts and all the supernatural and mystery ghosts bring with them people have interpolated into the game having deeper mechanics than it really does.

[MacKaris]

Publicado originalmente por Myth Alric:

I am not sure how finding evidence of a ghost haunting a house is unrelated to your job as a ghost hunter. That is literally your job.

The way you are playing is like getting the ending of Mass effect 2 where your ship blows up, all the crew dies and in the main character dies too, because you didn't do any of the character's side quests or upgraded the ship at all. Sure you can play games without ever doing anything except the main quest line, but that isn't really how most games are designed to be played.

I am just saying the game is more tense and more engaging and complex, if you actually try to complete the assigned objectives the game gives you, instead of bailing out early. You make it sound like a death sentence if you try to actually do the full job but my point it that it isn't that dangerous. There is far more risk than just getting into the game and popping into the house for a minute then bailing though.

You are only doing like 10% of the game so you are missing out on a lot of stuff. Games that should take 10-20 minutes you are doing in 2 minutes. Of course there is a lack of substance because you are choosing to avoid all of it.

You're really playing up the idea that I'm "only doing 10% of the game and claiming it's too easy", while just in a previous message I told you that actually quite often you get all the objectives almost automatically, without having to do much. "Find the room with temp below 10C" is completed automatically when you find the ghost's room. "Detect ghost with motion sensor" is equally automatic as long as you have a motion sensor, just slap it onto the wall in the ghost's room. "Get the ghost to walk in salt" is also almost automatic, when you're shifting all the kit from the van into the ghost room you also sprinkle the floor with salt and then just carry on with all the other business. "Witness a ghost event" is a bit mysterious, I'm still not sure how that works, but sometimes it's completed when anyone catches as much as a glimpse of the ghost while gathering the evidence for the MAIN OBJECTIVE, sometimes it's not completed even if you clearly see the ghost and it even kills one of you. The hardest objectives are the "take a picture of dirty sink" and "stop the ghost with a crucifix", because the there's hardly ever any dirty sinks around even when the ghost is agitated and your sanity lowered to the point where you die almost immediately if you enter the building. And if the ghost attacks, someone will probably die*, crucifix or no crucifix so that's not really something you want to go out of your way to try and complete, since the game just offers no real incentive to do so.

*unless you've dissected and analysed the game mechanics and know exactly where you need to stand etc. to be perfectly safe, but then you've already broken the game so you might just as well uninstall it and move on.

Just a couple of days ago I finished Desperados III. When you finish each map, you get a list of optional objectives that you can try to accomplish next time if you feel like you want to do it again. Like for example "don't kill anyone", "don't use a disguise", "Don't use any of Cooper's abilities" etc. To me these feel exactly the same as the stretch-goals in Phasmofobia. They are optional targets for someone who thinks the main mission wasn't hard enough. Of course you could simply make you own house rules as well, and decide that okay I'm going to complete this map with only one character even if the game doesn't specifically ask that of me, but in my opinion that would be just as stupid, and I'm sure as hell ain't gonna bother. I finished the main objective of the game, that's good enough for me. In RPGs I do often do many of the side quests as well, BUT NOT BECAUSE THE GAME TELLS ME TO, but because it makes me feel like I want to. It gives me a genuine incentive to do so, by offering me rewards or an interesting story. In Phasmofobia you get a like $10 if you go back into the house and try to find a dirty sink after you've otherwise completed the mission. I see absolutely no point in doing that, so thanks but no thanks. That's bad game design, and should be done away with. Give me a good reason to try and complete that objective, and maybe I will, but a tenner isn't going to cut it.

[kuli bulan]

you still get lost in the game? I can navigate without any light

[kuraiken]

Publicado originalmente por MacKaris:

Give me a good reason to try and complete that objective, and maybe I will, but a tenner isn't going to cut it.

On professionell difficulty, the money rewards are tripled. If you only receive $10 for an objective, you're playing amateur difficulty.

Overall, what it breaks down to is: you don't feel the objectives are a valid part of the game because you're not forced to complete them and you, subjectively, feel they are not worth the effort.

That's a subjective evaluation and perfectly fine, but you won't find people see it as a reason to listen to your suggestions. That's because in they very act of making the suggestions, you're denying the game experience of everyone who does feel that a ghost hunt is about gathering evidence, not just figuring out the ghost type.

And real life rationalizations like: "$10 (or $30 on professionell) doesn't cut it" aren't too convincing when you're basically doing ghost hunts that risk your life and won't even get you $500+. Stuff like "only figuring out the ghost type is important" isn't going to convince people who look at it from the ghost-hunter evidence gathering POV.

At this point, you're just arguing with people over which subjective game experience is valid. You may have had the intention of suggestion content additions (and I fully believe the game would benefit from more content & improvements) but the way you're going about it is unlikely to lead to anything productive and will likely only frustrate you.

[>< V ><]

Publicado originalmente por kuraiken:

At this point, you're just arguing with people over which subjective game experience is valid.

And so are you.

The guy already basically stated that the game is not for him, but if it's for you, cool. Have fun. What more is there to argue about accept people trying to tell him "He's not playing the game right."

I think he makes good points. I never bother with the dirty sink water. Am I really missing out on some part of the game because I'm not going to wait for RNG to bless me with a dirty sink? Am I really missing out on game content because I didn't smudge stick a room? Am I missing 90% of the game experience because I didn't record a freezing temperature room because my group thinks the thermometer is for noobs?

All the objectives are simply there to give you a reason to go back into the house. That's all they are. Reasons to go into the house. And frankly, I think he is right when he says the Dirty Water is bad game design, because it is. If one is so determined to get that picture, then just wait in the van for an hour, while you watch some Youtube and I'm sure RNG will eventually bless you.

[MacKaris]

Publicado originalmente por >< V ><:

Publicado originalmente por kuraiken:

At this point, you're just arguing with people over which subjective game experience is valid.

And so are you.

The guy already basically stated that the game is not for him, but if it's for you, cool. Have fun. What more is there to argue about accept people trying to tell him "He's not playing the game right."

I think he makes good points. I never bother with the dirty sink water. Am I really missing out on some part of the game because I'm not going to wait for RNG to bless me with a dirty sink? Am I really missing out on game content because I didn't smudge stick a room? Am I missing 90% of the game experience because I didn't record a freezing temperature room because my group thinks the thermometer is for noobs?

All the objectives are simply there to give you a reason to go back into the house. That's all they are. Reasons to go into the house. And frankly, I think he is right when he says the Dirty Water is bad game design, because it is. If one is so determined to get that picture, then just wait in the van for an hour, while you watch some Youtube and I'm sure RNG will eventually bless you.

Thank you! This is exactly what I'm trying to say.

Of course everyone's opinions are subjective. It just comes down to how people build their arguments. I think I've tried my best to offer good arguments for my opinions, so I feel like a simple 'you're playing the game wrong' is just a bit cheap for a counter-argument. If I was asking for a BFG 9000 to be included because the ghost is OP, THEN maybe you could say I'm playing the game wrong, IF you also included some proper arguments as to why that's the case.

[Myth Alric]

Well you are saying it is too easy while avoiding all the stuff that makes it more difficult. My point isn't really that it is wrong to only enjoy finding the ghost type, but that if you want a more challenging experience, try to complete the full job.

[MacKaris]

Publicado originalmente por Myth Alric:

Well you are saying it is too easy while avoiding all the stuff that makes it more difficult. My point isn't really that it is wrong to only enjoy finding the ghost type, but that if you want a more challenging experience, try to complete the full job.

No, I think you might have misunderstood me all along. My problem is not that the game is too easy and I simply want it to be harder. My problem is that the core of the game - the main game idea, if you will - is, while in theory very clever, in practice too simple and gets repetitive once you've understood how it works. The game simply isn't as good as it could be with the ideas I presented. If I ONLY wanted it to be harder, I could just simply play it solo and make my own house rules such as "don't use the thermometer" or "don't use the sanity pills." Making a game hard is easy. Making a game GOOD actually requires some deeper analysis of the goals and problems.

[WalkerRiley]

Complains the game is too easy. Claims he didn't say that. Proceeds to complain the game is too easy again.

Dude, you should just drop the game and find something else. This is a slow burn game. You sound like you need something more fast paced.