Story

[Brigadeos]

I have played abyss, symphonia, zestiria and berseria, and i feel that the story of this game is kind of boring and not interesting. Its just me? I am not crapping on the game, i find it really fun and with awesome mechanics, good art and animations and voice actors etc, but the story its just meh. I mean, i dont see any character development on anyone, yuri is the exact same person from beggining to end and also all the team is like that. The vigilante part was interesting but it was like it doesnt matter after a while, nobody cares about it and move on. And out of nowhere, a monster that will destroy the world or whatever. Between all of the games i find zestiria and now vesperia to have the most boring stories, while abyss and berseria are really cool with characters behaving differently after some time with a narrative that has a focus from beggining to end. Vesperia is like yuri traveling and doing different things everywhere with different people and out of nowhere a traitor, then out of nowhere a legend of some monster etc. Just wanted to share opinions not fighting.

[Simon]

I do agree about Vesperia having a not-so-interesting story. But I love the characters and also all the contents it has. Zestiria have the potential to be an interesting story but it was weakly presented, at least the lore is interesting in my opinion.

[RustyRed]

There's plenty of character development in Vesperia. There were some terrible moments that could have been made better ( like how Sodia stabs Yuri, or how Estelle was abducted), but it's a better experience overall compared to Berseria.

Berseria was overrated and dumbed down to the point where you can have infinite stuns. Boss fights in Berseria were garbage compared to Zestiria, and Arthorius is just retarded for a villain.
"Hu, my wife died, so I'm going to sacrifice her brother and cage her sister in a dungeon full of monsters". So much for a "genius" villain, huh?

[OnlyOffensive]

i dunno, zesteria and berseria combat seemed similar to me, zesteria has AWFUL gear system, though all tales games ive played have annoying item system anyway. Like in vesperia, you constantly farming skills, which you cant equip anyway with lower power weapons and there are three millions weapons 1a 1g 2k 3f and never enough money so you have to come back and scroll to find what you have missed.

Story wise vesperia seems.... decent, for this type of games. Yuri at least presented as someone who has complex personality and his criminal thing. Velvet in berseria is supposed to be "villian" but honestly the whole "evil party" thing there looked more like circus for 10y.o. kids with their constant "i will have my revenge" and other annoying cliches.

[coffeediction]

Vesperia just does'nt have a real antagonist imo. Zaude last boss is I believe actually the real one and should have been appeared after defeating Tarquaron last boss.. that would be A WHAAA moment.

[Brigadeos]

Originally posted by xuthan:

There's plenty of character development in Vesperia. There were some terrible moments that could have been made better ( like how Sodia stabs Yuri, or how Estelle was abducted), but it's a better experience overall compared to Berseria.

Berseria was overrated and dumbed down to the point where you can have infinite stuns. Boss fights in Berseria were garbage compared to Zestiria, and Arthorius is just retarded for a villain.
"Hu, my wife died, so I'm going to sacrifice her brother and cage her sister in a dungeon full of monsters". So much for a "genius" villain, huh?

Well yeah, Arthorius motivation was kind of extremist and cliche (the whole ''i will control the world so nobody is bad'' is freaking everywhere) but in vesperia is worse. Alexei wanted to save the world so he went full villain because reasons and then screwed up and, out of nowhere, another monster that will destroy the world. Way more crappier than berseria. And no, vesperia doesnt have character development. Yuri doesnt change, patty doesnt change, karol is kind of scaredy in the beggining and a little less in the end, rita is the same but with friends, Yudith is the freaking same all the game, she doesnt even have emotions is so freaking boring. Raven has a personality, then you discover he was a knight and then he changes, to the same personality as before...Character development is like Abyss, where Luke is like a different person in the beggining compared to the end. Velvet in berseria also changes along the story.

About the gameplay, yeah i agree, berseria is really easy compared to others. I got to lvl 200 and destroyed everything in unknown without effort. In other tales games unknown difficulty is really hard even for lvl 200 characters (in zestiria i never could beat the dragon zombie in unknown). But i really like the combo system of berseria and the fact that you can use all characters all the time, that was neat.

[Rachito]

Well, i find Symphonia really, reaaaaaallly boring. Some people like some things and other people don´t. It´s no big deal.

[coffeediction]

Ohh Velvet development and all the hate and ambitions, loved it, such a temper.
Symphonia is boring when you played ToV and ToB, before maybe ToZ1 too.
My first tales was ToS back days when it got released on GC. Played with a friend for 1 week straight through. Will never forget the time. And the story itself wasnt that bad. Its just depends on when you played it, and what experiences it left to you :)

[RustyRed]

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

Well yeah, Arthorius motivation was kind of extremist and cliche (the whole ''i will control the world so nobody is bad'' is freaking everywhere) but in vesperia is worse. Alexei wanted to save the world so he went full villain because reasons and then screwed up and, out of nowhere, another monster that will destroy the world. Way more crappier than berseria. And no, vesperia doesnt have character development. Yuri doesnt change, patty doesnt change, karol is kind of scaredy in the beggining and a little less in the end, rita is the same but with friends, Yudith is the freaking same all the game, she doesnt even have emotions is so freaking boring. Raven has a personality, then you discover he was a knight and then he changes, to the same personality as before...Character development is like Abyss, where Luke is like a different person in the beggining compared to the end. Velvet in berseria also changes along the story.

Alexei and Arthorius are entirely different people. Alexei was driven to madness. Being the highest ranking millitary officer and having little influence in politics was what made him go insane. Arthorius was always "level-headed", so there's no reason for his actions. When Arthorius stabbed Laephicet, he was calm, not like Alexei laughing psychotically as he tortures Estelle.

As for character development, it's more about your understanding of what character development is. Character development isn't exclusive to a character's change of personality over time. Character development is giving depth to a character that we wouldn't have known. It involves identifying the character's background, relationships, goals, decisions, and communication.


In this game, we learn that Yuri would kill people if the situation got out of hand. We learn that Yuri had nothing going for him since leaving the knights, and only had shelter thanks to the generosity of the inn keepers. Yuri has a terrible record, even if his actions were to help someone else. Yuri is a manipulator who will deceive to people to get his own way around things. He manipulates Estelle to stay with the crew even though it would have been safer for her to return with Flynn at Dahngrest.

If change was what you're after, the characters do change - it's not dramatic, but it's there - although Karol and Estelle are more apparent compred to the rest. It's just that your dislike for this game's characters is clouding your judgement. It's ok to say you didn't enjoy this game, I didn't enjoy this game's combat either (felt too easy, but time consuming at the same time).

[OnlyOffensive]

Originally posted by coffeediction:

Ohh Velvet development and all the hate and ambitions, loved it, such a temper.
Symphonia is boring when you played ToV and ToB, before maybe ToZ1 too.
My first tales was ToS back days when it got released on GC. Played with a friend for 1 week straight through. Will never forget the time. And the story itself wasnt that bad. Its just depends on when you played it, and what experiences it left to you :)

Berseria is the only game where i gave up on main character in combat. Demon boy was too fun to play.

[OnlyOffensive]

Originally posted by xuthan:

In this game, we learn that Yuri would kill people if the situation got out of hand. We learn that Yuri had nothing going for him since leaving the knights, and only had shelter thanks to the generosity of the inn keepers. Yuri has a terrible record, even if his actions were to help someone else. Yuri is a manipulator who will deceive to people to get his own way around things. He manipulates Estelle to stay with the crew even though it would have been safer for her to return with Flynn at Dahngrest.

Yuri manipulator? It seemed to me that he doesnt give a f about anyone or estelle most of the game. Its shes who constantly "ill go with you".

[RustyRed]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

Yuri manipulator? It seemed to me that he doesnt give a f about anyone or estelle most of the game. Its shes who constantly "ill go with you".

Maybe his charms got to you.

[Brigadeos]

Originally posted by xuthan:

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

Well yeah, Arthorius motivation was kind of extremist and cliche (the whole ''i will control the world so nobody is bad'' is freaking everywhere) but in vesperia is worse. Alexei wanted to save the world so he went full villain because reasons and then screwed up and, out of nowhere, another monster that will destroy the world. Way more crappier than berseria. And no, vesperia doesnt have character development. Yuri doesnt change, patty doesnt change, karol is kind of scaredy in the beggining and a little less in the end, rita is the same but with friends, Yudith is the freaking same all the game, she doesnt even have emotions is so freaking boring. Raven has a personality, then you discover he was a knight and then he changes, to the same personality as before...Character development is like Abyss, where Luke is like a different person in the beggining compared to the end. Velvet in berseria also changes along the story.

Alexei and Arthorius are entirely different people. Alexei was driven to madness. Being the highest ranking millitary officer and having little influence in politics was what made him go insane. Arthorius was always "level-headed", so there's no reason for his actions. When Arthorius stabbed Laephicet, he was calm, not like Alexei laughing psychotically as he tortures Estelle.

As for character development, it's more about your understanding of what character development is. Character development isn't exclusive to a character's change of personality over time. Character development is giving depth to a character that we wouldn't have known. It involves identifying the character's background, relationships, goals, decisions, and communication.


In this game, we learn that Yuri would kill people if the situation got out of hand. We learn that Yuri had nothing going for him since leaving the knights, and only had shelter thanks to the generosity of the inn keepers. Yuri has a terrible record, even if his actions were to help someone else. Yuri is a manipulator who will deceive to people to get his own way around things. He manipulates Estelle to stay with the crew even though it would have been safer for her to return with Flynn at Dahngrest.

If change was what you're after, the characters do change - it's not dramatic, but it's there - although Karol and Estelle are more apparent compred to the rest. It's just that your dislike for this game's characters is clouding your judgement. It's ok to say you didn't enjoy this game, I didn't enjoy this game's combat either (felt too easy, but time consuming at the same time).

I never said i didnt like the game, all the contrary is really fun. But the story is boring, thats my point. That Alexei background that you mention is explained in the game in a conversation, its like it doesnt matter, he is bad because reasons. Arthorius background is basically the same, he was a good person with a family, but the treason of the village made him question his methods and because of that he becomes the antagonist. Is the freaking same, i dont know why you say it like they are different. If you can point a difference is that, you see arthorius story in the game, with alexei he appears out of nowhere, does bad things while beign edgy without reason (i mean, i understand that he had some mental breakdown because responsabilities, but i doesnt explains why he likes to torture people and hates the entlewhatever) and then he dies in the most stupid way. And no, knowing the personalities of everyone is not necessarily a good character development. All tales games are good making you know about every character life and traits, and thats why they are really enjoyable games. But here yuri is cool, he does what he decides is better for everyone without doubts and never is scared to fight. but he is the exact same person all the story, that little arc when he goes vigilante doesnt even matter in the end, nobody gives a crap about it when the others know besides flynn.

[Rachito]

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

But here yuri is cool, he does what he decides is better for everyone without doubts and never is scared to fight. but he is the exact same person all the story, that little arc when he goes vigilante doesnt even matter in the end, nobody gives a crap about it when the others know besides flynn.

Thats not true at all. Estelle and Karol question Yuri about her vigilante persona, but they trust Yuri enough because they know him well. I mean is not like Berseria is better, Velvet is a vengeful person and threats her party members all the time but nobody gives a crap either.....well maybe Eleanor does at first.
Also, at some point the story show us a Yuri so tired about all the crap he leaves his friends and go alone to rescue/kill Estelle but he can barely reach his destiny, he just want to rest, then all his partners come to him and make him reconsider about his actions and then Yuri realizes he was wrong. Shortly later the story show us a Yuri so worried about the citizens of Zaphias that Judith, Rita and others notice that, even Yuri says later he was worry. Yuri doesn´t behave the same all the time.

[Brigadeos]

Originally posted by Rachito:

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

But here yuri is cool, he does what he decides is better for everyone without doubts and never is scared to fight. but he is the exact same person all the story, that little arc when he goes vigilante doesnt even matter in the end, nobody gives a crap about it when the others know besides flynn.

Thats not true at all. Estelle and Karol question Yuri about her vigilante persona, but they trust Yuri enough because they know him well. I mean is not like Berseria is better, Velvet is a vengeful person and threats her party members all the time but nobody gives a crap either.....well maybe Eleanor does at first.
Also, at some point the story show us a Yuri so tired about all the crap he leaves his friends and go alone to rescue/kill Estelle but he can barely reach his destiny, he just want to rest, then all his partners come to him and make him reconsider about his actions and then Yuri realizes he was wrong. Shortly later the story show us a Yuri so worried about the citizens of Zaphias that Judith, Rita and others notice that, even Yuri says later he was worry. Yuri doesn´t behave the same all the time.

Well Estelle says that maybe what Yuri did was for better, that is complicated, and then never mentions it again. And Yuri doesnt realize he was wrong about anything, he just realizes that he cant go alone doing everything alone because now he has friends. And still he tries to go alone like 2 times after so, yeah, he is the same. And Yuri since the beggining worries about other people, everything he does is for other people, so is nothing new that he worries about the citizens of Zaphias. The game starts with him fighting for those people and ends like that. Velvet on the other hand starts as some random village girl, then goes edgy warrior girl and ends being a badass older sister. Starts seeking revenge and treatening everyone, ends caring about everyone in his party. Nobody gives a crap about the treats because some know that she is not serious and the others are straight psychopaths (Rokurou is a selfish bad person all the freaking game, obviously he doesnt give a crap about treats). What i really think tho, is that Yuri is the coolest main character in all ''tales of'' series. But this game needed a good antagonist or a solid objective from the beggining.

[Rachito]

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

Well Estelle says that maybe what Yuri did was for better, that is complicated, and then never mentions it again.

She mention it a few times later. He eventually stops doing his vigilante thing so of course she stops mention it.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

And Yuri doesnt realize he was wrong about anything, he just realizes that he cant go alone doing everything alone because now he has friends.

Therefore he was wrong doing the lone wolf thing again and he realize this, which i said before.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

And still he tries to go alone like 2 times after so, yeah, he is the same.

He is not, he changes. There are even skits they deal with that subject.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

And Yuri since the beggining worries about other people, everything he does is for other people, so is nothing new that he worries about the citizens of Zaphias.

The point here is you said he is always cool and never is scared and all those things, which is not true. When he was worried about the citizens of Zaphias he tried to be cool about it but the others find out which proves he doesn´t behave the same all the time.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

The game starts with him fighting for those people and ends like that.

Yes and no. He does that thinking about doing it alone, he tries a few times to resolve things alone, he is yelled a few times by Flinn, the Don, Karol or Estelle, then he learns about team work. He even starts a guild which he would never do that at the beggining of the game.
Look, even if he starts and ends the same way (which i do not find it true), that means he changes through the game and changes again at the end.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

Velvet on the other hand starts as some random village girl,

Yeah, only in the very begining for not too long ......The vigilante Yuri arc last a lot more than the Velvet village girl.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

then goes edgy warrior girl and ends being a badass older sister.

I don´t know about that, to me she ends being edgy at hell. I admit she changes about her brother and stuff but she is still very edgy at the end. To me Laphicet is what a complex character should be, Velvet only tries to be complex.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

Starts seeking revenge and treatening everyone, ends caring about everyone in his party.

Im pretty sure she continues threating her party when they don´t do what she want to do. Sure she is a lot more softie than before but still..... And she still seeks revenge, she even said later in the game she is not fighting Artorius for the people of the world.

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

Nobody gives a crap about the treats because some know that she is not serious and the others are straight psychopaths (Rokurou is a selfish bad person all the freaking game, obviously he doesnt give a crap about treats).

The same way nobody care about Yuri being a vigilante because some know he is better than that and some are like him (like Judith and Raven).

Originally posted by Brigadeos:

What i really think tho, is that Yuri is the coolest main character in all ''tales of'' series. But this game needed a good antagonist or a solid objective from the beggining.

I respect that, but I differ. I don´t like very much stories like Berseria when you know from the begining who is the antagonist and you have to fight him until the very end (the plot twist about her brother is cool tho) and all you do trhough the game is always about find him and defeat him. I like a lot more stories like Vesperia which start with one objetive and evolve in something very different to the end.
Also, i find Duke more interesting than Artorius. Sure, the game doesn´t focus on him until the last part but he is always there, he even aid you and saves you a few times so you don´t really know he is the antagonist and final boss of the game, which i find that plot twist really cool.

But don´t get me wrong, i love Berseria especially the cast and It´s my second favorite just behind Vesperia.