Skull House

[rumpelstiltskin]

so i eventually stumbled upon the winning trick for that level while experimenting on another level, and i don't think it's very consistent (the trick is that when you trigger both "A is B" and "A is C" at the same time, A gets replaced by both B and C). i felt that some simultaneous magic was the solution, but i tried simultaneously pushing a key into the door and activating "key is something", and having two yous, one of which (the key) walked into the door, and another activated "key is something", but none of that worked. i don't see why these solutions are conceptually different.

but generally, i really don't like this mechanic. object duplication is very OP, and every level must be checked for loopholes. i suggest removing it and the level altogether. if activating just one rule (either "A is B" or "A is C") based on some internal priority feels too arbitrary, one solution is to activate neither on the grounds of them contradicting. another (more complex) solution would be to create a single object that's a "quantum superposition" of B and C. such object will collapse to either B or C whenever a rule applies to it that only applies to B or C. for instance, if there's a "B is push" rule and you push "B&C", it'll collapse to just B.

[Shashakiro]

Any of your proposed changes to the mechanic would be much less intuitive, in my view. For "A IS B AND C" to turn A into both a B and a C is by *far* the most intuitive behavior to me, and that is equivalent to simultaneous "A IS B" and "A IS C".

That said, I'm with you in that I'm not a big fan of Skull House as a level; it's one of the very few levels that feels like it relies on a cheap trick more than clever rules manipulation. If the level used AND instead of simultaneous IS I think it would feel less cheap.

[rumpelstiltskin]

for "A is B and C" sure (does it actually work like that btw? will have to check), but for separate "A is B" and "A is C", it's pretty debatable at least. one would assume that there is some internal order, whatever it might be, and once A becomes B, it can no longer become C (or vice versa). also, my main point is that if it claims to honor simultaneous events, then it should work with simultaneous open and transform as well (and other similar cases).

[codyfun]

Maybe it can get the Prison treatment, where the normal level has an AND, and there's an extra with the current layout? Also, move the text further out of the way (especially the flag text) to reduce the amount of time players spend thinking about incorrect answers.

As for how OP it is, I'm sure that if any levels actually are broken by the ability to duplicate items, the dev will be able to correct it somehow. They've been very good with that.

[Mar Hepto]

I'm going to throw my hat in with the "Skull House is not a good level" crowd. I've had to look up hints for a few levels so far, but this is the only one that feels *unfair*, and I don't think I would have ever intuited the solution. It isn't just that the logic is *weird*, it's that it actively contradicts many players' understanding of the rules.

The way the "X is X" rule is introduced makes it seems like "X is X" blocks "X is Y" because together they form a contradiction. X can't be both X and Y, so in this case the game prioritizes "X is X". Fine, great, makes perfect sense, except it primes the player to expect that somehow making simultaneous "X is Y" and "X is Z" rules will simply lead to one of them being cancelled out. But no, it turns out X *can* be both Y and Z ! The reveal in Skull House recontextualizes the "X is X" rule as... a weird edge case? An exception? The point is that it makes the rules feel less cohesive and consistent.

To address the issue, I'd agree with the poster above saying that "X is Y and Z" causing two objects to be generated makes perfect sense to me. I feel like making the solution involve that structure instead of what it does now would make the level more satisfying.

E: Except that now that I think of it, making that sentence is processed the same as making "X is Y" and "X is Z" statements, so...we're back to the same problem! Maybe replacing it with "X has Y and Z" would be best, since I don't think I've seen any levels that make use of that trick.

[Arri Shi]

I guess the dev reads the forums. As of this update, Skull House is now an Extra and has been replaced by "Lovely House", which has an "AND" instead of two "IS"

[Patashu]

As someone who was stumped on Skull House until I remembered that my brother brought up that you CAN simultaneously TF something into two things in an unrelated conversation, I am among those happy with this change.

[HelgiRalfarsson]

I really liked this mechanic. It took me awhile (maybe a week or two) to solve it and I was so excited when I figured out the lynchpin. Ended up being one of my favorite levels because of that. I think if you're approaching the level having seen the solution with a guide, it may seem unfair but I think it's awesome and really necessary to solve much later levels.

[Tricky Joe]

This change just came to Switch and with it I finally solved Skull House pretty quickly (after weeks of getting nowhere); the AND was just the tip-off I needed. I completely understand why it seems unfair, but I think it can be justified as "X IS X" being special because it maintains the status quo, which feels like it can be higher priority.

That said, I'm very happy with the change (just like Prison and Dungeon) -- it gives the player a much fairer chance I think.