No Explanation of Rubber Banding mechanic

[Tastemaker Select]

There should be something in the tutorial or something somwhere that lets the player know that on the first lap they're basically going to get dusted no matter what they do, and then as the laps go on they'll start to catch up. I did Grand Prix at least 10 times trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, as after a lap or two I would just quit out. I only figured out the rubber banding was such a huge thing after forcing myself to run the whole race thinking I would lose anyway. This mechanic should be conveyed to the player before they presumptiously quit.

[BodyOrgan]

I don't think that's it. I can actually stay with the pack, even pass them, as long as I stay in the slipstream. Eventually the CPU falls out of the slipstream itself, and this is when you're noticing yourself beginning to catchup and pass them.

[Tastemaker Select]

There's absolutely a huge, noticeable difference after laps 1 and 2. Remember that this is something that needs to be conveyed to new players, and new players aren't going to be masters of slipstreaming right off of the bat. I've been 100% games like Gran Turismo and Need for Speed for years, so I'm no slouch.
The idea of this game is based on Outrun, where you're not so much fighting to stay in the pack, but more so just overtaking people ahead of you. I feel like if each race started with the car already running and you in 20th place, that idea would be conveyed.

[OpenRoadRacer | Flame of Liberty]

Publicado originalmente por Crza:

The idea of this game is based on Outrun, where you're not so much fighting to stay in the pack, but more so just overtaking people ahead of you.

Then play the Arcade mode.

Honestly, even when I put the game on Hard, the AI drivers are just ridiculously easy to overtake. Granted, there's probably a bit of an issue with balancing around the Grand Prix mode; but even there, when I put on Hard difficulty, I STILL completely blow their doors off and have the lead with two laps to go, even in the very first race of a series.

They kinda need that start boost in order for your rivals to pose ANY form of challenge.

[Tastemaker Select]

You're not understanding what I'm saying.
I take no issue with the difficulty of the AI drivers.
I take issue with the conveyance of the game mechanics to the player.
It is not explained to the player that the player is supposed to start out at a major disadvantage, as the core mechanics are based around starting in last and slowly getting into first via the rubber banding mechanic. If the player is not aware of this, they will start their first race and wonder what they're doing wrong over and over, until they eventually just play a full level out of frustration and discover this for themselves.
This is purely quality of life, nothing broken or imbalanced within the game from what I can tell. I'm just concerned that people with less patience are going to pick this up and drop it/ragequit.

[mega]

Publicado originalmente por BodyOrgan:

Eventually the CPU falls out of the slipstream itself, and this is when you're noticing yourself beginning to catchup and pass them.

I was under the impression that the CPU players couldn't use the slipstream mechanic, as per the the fourth wall breaking by one of the rival drivers.

[BodyOrgan]

Publicado originalmente por Megatron:

I was under the impression that the CPU players couldn't use the slipstream mechanic, as per the the fourth wall breaking by one of the rival drivers.

Yeah, you're right. They just get this OP round start, and then you overtake them as you finish the race.

[WinningRun]

Publicado originalmente por Crza:

It is not explained to the player that the player is supposed to start out at a major disadvantage, as the core mechanics are based around starting in last and slowly getting into first via the rubber banding mechanic. If the player is not aware of this, they will start their first race and wonder what they're doing wrong over and over, until they eventually just play a full level out of frustration and discover this for themselves.

lol that's one of the problems with gaming today; people seem to need their hand held. If you can't make it through a 3 minute race without rage quitting because you aren't coming first, you better not play anything made before 2005, or you're gonna have a bad time. Some games on the NES would have left modern gamers in tears.

A funny video regarding this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5YTFt7PIdo

[SlvtDanteChosenOne14]

I don't get rubber banding.

[Tactical Porcupine]

The bots definitely rubberband.

I've done a few grand prix races and even when I start 4th or 5th on the grid, by the time I get up to speed they've all mostly blasted by me. On some tracks I can keep up with them for a few corners with slipstream, at which point they all start to magically slow back down by themselves whether there are any other cars ahead of them or not.


I just accepted it, by virtue of what the game is emulating and referencing in its gameplay (OutRun, Lotus, etc, etc), though it's irritating in a way for a good starting position to mean absolutely nothing. I'd honestly love a difficulty option that balances out the AI's speeds to emulate the player's -- kinda like what Horizon Chase Turbo does, to an extent, because you can keep up with most of the cars from the start of the race on there but the top 5/6 WILL rubberband the hell away until the last lap. But I digress.


It would be nice to see a more fluid/dynamic/natural AI pace, but it's probably a programming nightmare to do it. Grand Prix is good enough with what the game represents, imo. Rivals stomp me in sprints though, 'cus I inevitably hit a traffic car and they disappear. lol.

[Teie]

Come on, you're just bad at it. Seriously, I've been playing the demo up until now and believe me, it is so much more cruel than the complete game. The courses became so simple, you do not even need to memorize 'em a bit, and the CPU in the GP mode is lame. To be fair, regular rivals, especially Bob Ross, are somewhat nasty sometimes, but for the most part, it's a nerfed to death game now.

[Tastemaker Select]

Publicado originalmente por FatChickThriller:

Publicado originalmente por Crza:

It is not explained to the player that the player is supposed to start out at a major disadvantage, as the core mechanics are based around starting in last and slowly getting into first via the rubber banding mechanic. If the player is not aware of this, they will start their first race and wonder what they're doing wrong over and over, until they eventually just play a full level out of frustration and discover this for themselves.

lol that's one of the problems with gaming today; people seem to need their hand held. If you can't make it through a 3 minute race without rage quitting because you aren't coming first, you better not play anything made before 2005, or you're gonna have a bad time. Some games on the NES would have left modern gamers in tears.

A funny video regarding this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5YTFt7PIdo

LOL. Dude, you shouldn't assume you know anything about the person you're talking to. I don't feel the need to go into depth, but I'll just say that I'm 32, and have beaten a ton of extremely difficult games.

In any case, for the...45th? time, THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ISSUE IS NOT WITH THE DIFFICULTY. It is with the CONVEYANCE OF THE GAME'S MECHANICS TO THE PLAYER. If any of you have ever taken a game design course, you would know that one of the biggest challenges as the level designer is to be able to lead/teach the player the mechanics of the game naturally, rather than with a tutorial.
So my SUGGESTION (i.e. not a complaint) to the developer is to find a way to convey to the player that each race starts with a clear advantage to the AI, that will degrade as time goes on. Here's an extremely awesome video by Egoraptor on the concept of conveyance, in case you still don't think what I'm saying is valid in game design. It's also hilarious and should be viewed by everyone forever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

[Tastemaker Select]

Publicado originalmente por Desu Ex:

Come on, you're just bad at it. Seriously, I've been playing the demo up until now and believe me, it is so much more cruel than the complete game. The courses became so simple, you do not even need to memorize 'em a bit, and the CPU in the GP mode is lame. To be fair, regular rivals, especially Bob Ross, are somewhat nasty sometimes, but for the most part, it's a nerfed to death game now.

The game is actually very easy, yes. Once I learned that you're supposed to be in last as the race starts, I 1st placed every race I did from there on out.
Imagine you're playing Street Fighter against the CPU, and for this example, you need to win 5 rounds to win the match. So the first round, you lose in 1 hit to your opponent. You start thinking "WHOA what? That's super cheap!" Next round goes, you land a couple normal hits but he 1 shots you again. You turn the game off out of frustration and walk away, only to learn later that once the CPU gets 3 wins, he can no longer 1 shot you and becomes very easy to beat.
The developer runs the risk of turning off a lot of players very quickly, as some/most people do not have the kind of patience to figure it out the hard way. If the developer conveyed to the player that this was going to happen in the first place, then there would be no problem.

[Teie]

Well, I think the dev just tried to mimick Top Gear 2 in that regard. In TP2 you also could not outrun the opponents on lap 1 and sometimes even lap 2.

[Tastemaker Select]

Publicado originalmente por Teie:

Well, I think the dev just tried to mimick Top Gear 2 in that regard. In TP2 you also could not outrun the opponents on lap 1 and sometimes even lap 2.

Yeah, but that legacy knowledge isn't necessarily ingrained within gamers. Hell I didn't know lol

[Teie]

Publicado originalmente por Goomasta:

Publicado originalmente por Teie:

Well, I think the dev just tried to mimick Top Gear 2 in that regard. In TP2 you also could not outrun the opponents on lap 1 and sometimes even lap 2.

Yeah, but that legacy knowledge isn't necessarily ingrained within gamers. Hell I didn't know lol

It's okay.
'The more you know'
*a star flying by leaving the colors of rainbow behind*
;)