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I have said this since the day it was released and I will say it again right now, the Source engine in the state that Valve has created it is not a good competitive gaming platform. There are far too many random variations, hit detection issues, netcode issues including excessive lag compensation and overall just a loose gameplay experience.
A lot of people missed the boat on 1.6 and started with Source, they don't understand how much tighter and just in general better of a gameplay experience was had in that game because of the way it mechanically functioned.
What the mod team did with Counter-Strike Pro Mod is the only time I have seen the Source engine actually function good for online gaming. Not because it was running 1.6 mechanics but rather because the engine and netcode itself was recoded to mimic the GoldSrc engine functionality.
Counter-Strike: Source was an inherently flawed game from the get go because of engine nuances, since GO was built from a game that was dodgy to begin with a lot of the problems carried over and many more exist now since they messed with it.
Valve has nearly 13 years invested in this franchise, they have the source code to all of these engines, why is it that a company which essentially created these games and owns the source code cannot get things right yet a modder can?
Simple answer, they don't know what they're doing and they don't understand these games or how they are meant to function. The release of the new version of Mirage is yet another clear indication of this, they broke angles, they added clutter, they broke smokes, they broke flashes, they broke spam spots, they changed geometry, they broke the map.
They don't have a competitive understanding of anything and lead on like they do, they get feedback from the competitive and professional community and instead of just implementing this feedback they put a spin on the feedback of what they want to do and implement that.
GO isn't a bad game but it's a long ways off from being a good game, until Valve really buckles down and says "Okay, what do we need to do to fix this game?" and actually listen to the community, it will remain a subpar game which has many problems.
tl;dr Valve is overconfident in their competitive knowledge of this franchise and makes illogical and bad decisions because of it. Until they actually start listening to us they will continue to make ignorant and arrogant development decisions which negatively impact the game and franchise.
They are beta gamers more or less, I mean this in the way that they are the people who always say in the beta stage of a game "relax, it's only in beta, this will all be fixed".
They hold onto these ideals long after it's obvious that the company making the game either doesn't really care anymore or updating is grinding to a hault because it's where the developer wants the game even if the community doesn't.
I think CSGO is better than source and might get better than 1.6, in less than a year it has improved so much and I think it will continue improving. You can always go and play 1.6 or source if you want, but those games are not coming back.
I don't get how people can think a company like Valve can be really naive and stupid to not pay attention to the gaming comunity and the pro comunity after so many years with all the success they have had with this game and the revolution they made with Half-Life, you really think they don't know?, of course they had to experiment, do trial and error, SOURCE didn't come up as good as 1.6 for many people but it was very good for others. Now they are working with the comunity like it hasn't been done before and this should be good. They started asking the pros, they are asking the gaming comunity, our feedback is always being collected and there have been many changes because of that, it has been less than a year and the game has improved a lot. You can't make everyone happy but I think valve is trying hard.
To complain about the engine at this point doesn't make sense, Counter Strike Pro Mod is a proof that the engine has nothing to do with it and I think CSGO is a proof of it as well. At this point the source engine definitely has been updated and improved compared to its original version.
You can argue that SOURCE is bad as a competitive game compared to 1.6 and most people might agree, but I find it inmature and ridiculous when people complain about a modification in a map or a change in the way a nade use to behave, etc. Ok, it doesn't behave the way it use to?, well move on and learn new ways. A tactic or a smoke doesn't work the same way?, well find a new tactic and a new spot for that smoke! Just because it is new doesn't mean it is bad, valve didn't make CS great, we did it by playing it and being creative, maybe you are just scared because it is not what you knew and were used to for a long time.
Everything changes, move on or stay where you are, it is up to you. That is life.
Nya` 200% agree
They have a 13 year old model to follow, something which achieved the greatest FPS success of any game in history and they abandoned that for what they see as innovation. I see it as illogically changing things which were not only not broken to begin with but functioned much, much better.
Change isn't always bad and I'm for change when it's done properly, it's when you make bad changes which is the problem. The Source engine netcode is flawed by design, it's not meant to handle broadband connectivity, it's intended to cater to a high latency environment thus providing excessive interpolation and lag compensation which cannot be disabled.
This results in hit detection issues, peekers advantage, getting killed after passing far beyond corners and things of that nature, it's not a tight gameplay environment, it's loose and sloppy.
To add to this we have issues like fog which 9/10 people hate and for good reasoning, it accomplishes nothing but washing out the already bleak looking colors on maps and makes seeing people at distance exceedingly harder which results in getting killed by enemies who blend into the backdrop.
We have maps which were not made with competitive play in mind, there are numerous player to world scaling issues where it's clearly obvious that the player is too large for the world they are in. They chose to abandon the 1.6 player to world scale for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
There is clutter everywhere, edges, objects and numerous other random things in the environment which you get easily stuck on. This results in extremely limited pathing when traversing maps, limited approach angles, limited cover due to being so large and in general lowering the skill ceiling on maps because you are essentially shooting fish in a barrel, Inferno is the best example of this.
The movement is absolutely atrocious, even jumping on things becomes a difficult task because for again no good reason they added a dip when you jump which essentially makes you crouch in a way as you land. Running around a map is like ice skating, you slide through the world and off things, strafing is highly abused because movement acceleration is set too high. They added excessive stamina which does not allow you to hop more than a few jumps to evade from people or get through constrictive areas quickly.
They messed with the economy adding kill bonuses and tried to make useless weapons in the other games viable, they made completely unskilled weapons like the P90 and auto snipers some of the best guns in the game.
They destroyed the desert eagle, they made the glock which is a starting pistol one of if not the best pistol in the game. They removed the silencer from the M4 which threw off weapon balancing and tradeoffs with the AK-47 making the AK a much more overpowered weapon than it already was.
I can go on this is just some of the major problems which exist on this engine and in this game, people are not complaining for no reason, there are countless reasons as to what is wrong with this engine and the resulting game. Until you really understand this game from a high level team based competitive mindset you simply can't fathom how much of a negative impact these things have on the overall gameplay experience.
This thread is what is wrong with this community, you accept the illogical, the broken and the mediocre as good or fine and as a result that is all that you are given.
That's the point. This GO (counter made for casual and bf player..)...look like they throw all the knowledge in a garbage can and start from scratch..
I completely agree with Nya again.
Why not take the thing they made so good and start from that, they had the knowledge... Why modify maps? Why not just make new one?
The thread is not wrong, people who think like you are not the comunity, we all with our different opinions are the comunity. I am not accepting the illogical, the broken and the mediocre as good or fine, that is just your opinion and the way you want to see things. I never played in high level competitions when I was playing 1.6, but I played and watched the game enough to understand it, I also configured and hosted my own server and did a bit of work on modding (I am not better in csgo than I was in 1.6 by the way.) There were many modders, map makers, casters, etc. who were not pro players and understood the game, those people were a big part of the growth and success of the game.
Do you think the creator of CS thought of making a huge competitive game when he had the idea of cs?, it had to go through a process before it became a success. Maps in 1.6 were not created thinking of high level competition cuz when CS started, there wasn't even a huge competitive scene, the high level competion scene became a success because it was so much fun to play this game and people was just constantly getting involved and improving the game. CS didn't start as 1.6, it started as a beta until it became 1.6. If am not mistaken, people were whining and complaining about the transition between 1.5 and 1.6, maybe not for the same exact reasons as it is happening with csgo but still a lot of unhappy people about that change.
I love 1.6 but I don't think it is perfect, some aspects needed to be fixed, unfortunately I didn't find that in CSS but I think those problems are fixed in csgo, which I guess is a matter of opinion but well... CSGO still needs some things to get fixed and they will have to get fixed, I think fog is ridiciulously exagerated (however there are _se maps), I like the weapons balance but I would like the bunny hop to be as it was in 1.6, etc. Other aspects just won't change because csgo is a different game.
My knowledge about the technical issues with the source engine is very limited, but I definitely think a company like Valve worked on them through the years and will continue doing so (not saying valve is perfect but I believe they are trying to listen to the comunity to make the game a success). When I play csgo I don't feel like I am playing 1.6 but I don't feel like I am playing css either.
Another very important detail to consider is that this is also a business and if there is no profit, then there is no point on working on this game, it is kinda sad but it is the truth... yet it is still a good game.
The game has reached this point and there is no going back to the "1.6 elite players scene". I've heard people saying that some players had success in css just because they didn't make it in 1.6 and it might be true because of the way css was built, but do any high level 1.6 player ever made it in css?, no that I know of but did they even try? mmm... I know... why to try in an "inferior" game if I already have success in a "superior" one right?.
You couldn't compare Counter Strike with any other game when it was created, hence a unique way to play a game started and was adopted as the best way to play it, then css came out and it was so different so it was called "a bad game", I do prefer 1.6 over css though.
Now I ask, do you like a game because you are good at it?, or are you good at a game because you like it?
either answer is good but which one is your case?
So to put a period on this and for anyone reading: the game has reached this point and there is no going back. You could leave CSGO and support Counter Strike Pro Mod and play 1.6 forever since it is so perfect, or maybe CSS if you think that game is the perfect one, noone is telling you not to do it.
But instead you could stop whining and complaining and start giving your positive feedback to make CSGO a better game.