make this game hitscan

[StonkOverflow]

currently, the game has server-side hitreg, which unfortunately is not hitscan. i'd really like it to be actual hitscan. that would make the game infinitely more fair and enjoyable for everyone : )

[LeMonKy]

Hitscan is when hits are registered by shooting a ray from the player's camera, and whoever that ray is pointing at gets shot. It's instant. Cs uses hitscan. Alternative to hitscan is using projectiles which are slow and which cs does not use.

Server side hitreg is not hitscan, nor is it projectile because it is not a type of bullet calculation.

Hitreg is it's own thing. On cs it's done server side because it's more fair and not as easy to fake. If hitreg was clientside like on a certain mobile game, the client can just report to the server that "yeah i shot that guy" whenever. This would cause dying behind walls, cheating, and would make lagswitches more useful.

Server side hitreg is used so the server, which runs in real time, can calculate if both players saw each other before accepting the hit. Server side hitreg is used in pretty much all modern games.

Only problem with server side hitreg is the slight delay of your client sending your click, to the server getting it and processing it, to then finally your client getting the result and you seeing it.

Many games use client side prediction (including cs) to make the game feel more responsive. For example, when you click, your gun plays the shooting animation instantly, and the enemy might be bleeding too. Your client predicts that your shot would hit, and if the server agrees, the enemy will be hit.

Hitreg and hitscan are different things. Hopefully this posts helps clear that confusion

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

@KigLeMonKy OP's definition of "hitscan" is simply "I shot a guy — damage must be inflicted", even if the OP is already dead. We had this conversation in another topic recently: https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/4417551094433456145/?ctp=7#c4417551094436710581

There our conversation ended with OP saying this:

@StonkOverflow:

tysm for the tldr. unfortunately only option 2 is hitscan, as hitscan is defined simply by "i shot the guy on my screen, therefore the server acknowledges that by killing him". anything different from that is not hitscan, and instead just server-side hitreg. i really wish csgo actually had hitscan, since the game would be much fairer that way :pensive:

@kabanod1m:

where are you getting that definition from?
"i shot the guy on my screen, therefore the server acknowledges that by killing him"
what if you are already dead? imagine your enemy having 500 ping (half a second literally), you peek and shoot him in the head, he dies and half a second later you also die because his dead body shot you.
on his screen he wasn't dead yet, he shot you on his screen.
is that fair? is that what you want it to be?

@StonkOverflow:

yep. it's certainly fairer than me at 10ms ping killing a guy on my screen and yet not being given the kill because he had 5ms ping. so the hitscan solution isn't perfect, but at least it's fairer. possible fix for the 500ms issue you mentioned is to limit players based on ping. anyone with >100ms ping gets put into a >100ms match. easy

Well I definitely don't want dead people killing me after death in this game.

Even in client hitscan games that I play, for example PUBG, this is fixed. In PUBG if a dead (or knocked-down) player shoots you, even if that makes perfect sense — bullet travel time isn't instant in that game, so a scenario where two snipers kill each other in the head by shooting at the same time is realistic, if you are knocked down or dead all your bullets that are already traveling through the air don't deal any damage on impact. Damaged players still see blood splatters on themselves but take no damage.

OP has a point but I'll disagree with:

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

that would make the game infinitely more fair and enjoyable for everyone : )

I think 90% of the community will disagree with being killed by a player who they've already killed just now.



also in that thread I linked earlier I explained why this game is actually hitscan, and why "hitscan" and "server-side"/"client-side" cannot be directly compared as they are different things. "hitscan" can be compared against "projectile", and "server-side" can only be compared against "client-side", but OP actually means neither of that, OP means "what to do with actions of an already dead player" logic.

[StonkOverflow]

Originally posted by KigLeMonKy:

Hitscan is when hits are registered by shooting a ray from the player's camera, and whoever that ray is pointing at gets shot. It's instant. Cs uses hitscan. Alternative to hitscan is using projectiles which are slow and which cs does not use.

Server side hitreg is not hitscan, nor is it projectile because it is not a type of bullet calculation.

Hitreg is it's own thing. On cs it's done server side because it's more fair and not as easy to fake. If hitreg was clientside like on a certain mobile game, the client can just report to the server that "yeah i shot that guy" whenever. This would cause dying behind walls, cheating, and would make lagswitches more useful.

Server side hitreg is used so the server, which runs in real time, can calculate if both players saw each other before accepting the hit. Server side hitreg is used in pretty much all modern games.

Only problem with server side hitreg is the slight delay of your client sending your click, to the server getting it and processing it, to then finally your client getting the result and you seeing it.

Many games use client side prediction (including cs) to make the game feel more responsive. For example, when you click, your gun plays the shooting animation instantly, and the enemy might be bleeding too. Your client predicts that your shot would hit, and if the server agrees, the enemy will be hit.

Hitreg and hitscan are different things. Hopefully this posts helps clear that confusion

true, hitreg and hitscan are very different, hence why i said

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

currently, the game has server-side hitreg, which unfortunately is not hitscan

it would be really great if cs was actually hitscan so that when you kill someone on your screen they die, just like they do in every other fair and balanced game. hope this helped!

[StonkOverflow]

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

@KigLeMonKy OP's definition of "hitscan" is simply "I shot a guy — damage must be inflicted", even if the OP is already dead. We had this conversation in another topic recently: https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/4417551094433456145/?ctp=7#c4417551094436710581

There our conversation ended with OP saying this:

@StonkOverflow:

tysm for the tldr. unfortunately only option 2 is hitscan, as hitscan is defined simply by "i shot the guy on my screen, therefore the server acknowledges that by killing him". anything different from that is not hitscan, and instead just server-side hitreg. i really wish csgo actually had hitscan, since the game would be much fairer that way :pensive:

@kabanod1m:

where are you getting that definition from?
"i shot the guy on my screen, therefore the server acknowledges that by killing him"
what if you are already dead? imagine your enemy having 500 ping (half a second literally), you peek and shoot him in the head, he dies and half a second later you also die because his dead body shot you.
on his screen he wasn't dead yet, he shot you on his screen.
is that fair? is that what you want it to be?

@StonkOverflow:

yep. it's certainly fairer than me at 10ms ping killing a guy on my screen and yet not being given the kill because he had 5ms ping. so the hitscan solution isn't perfect, but at least it's fairer. possible fix for the 500ms issue you mentioned is to limit players based on ping. anyone with >100ms ping gets put into a >100ms match. easy

Well I definitely don't want dead people killing me after death in this game.

Even in client hitscan games that I play, for example PUBG, this is fixed. In PUBG if a dead (or knocked-down) player shoots you, even if that makes perfect sense — bullet travel time isn't instant in that game, so a scenario where two snipers kill each other in the head by shooting at the same time is realistic, if you are knocked down or dead all your bullets that are already traveling through the air don't deal any damage on impact. Damaged players still see blood splatters on themselves but take no damage.

OP has a point but I'll disagree with:

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

that would make the game infinitely more fair and enjoyable for everyone : )

I think 90% of the community will disagree with being killed by a player who they've already killed just now.



also in that thread I linked earlier I explained why this game is actually hitscan, and why "hitscan" and "server-side"/"client-side" cannot be directly compared as they are different things. "hitscan" can be compared against "projectile", and "server-side" can only be compared against "client-side", but OP actually means neither of that, OP means "what to do with actions of an already dead player" logic.

that thread is about tick speed. this one is about the lack of hitscan in this game. please stay on topic

[Hamless Hog]

Wait, you seriously think the bullets have travel time? Any evidence of this?

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

(removed quote to shorten subsequent posts)

that thread is about tick speed. this one is about the lack of hitscan in this game. please stay on topic

my whole post in this thread was nothing but on the topic of this thread + extractions of the thread I linked that were on the topic of this thread

I just brought this all in so that people can skip the whole conversation we had there and start with the fact that by saying "hitscan" you mean "I lethally hit an enemy on my screen so the enemy should die", which implies allowing dead players deal damage for a short period of time after their death, short time being their ping time to the server.

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

it would be really great if cs was actually hitscan so that when you kill someone on your screen they die, just like they do in every other fair and balanced game.

by the way, can you please name those games? only PvP ones though

[StonkOverflow]

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Wait, you seriously think the bullets have travel time? Any evidence of this?

yes. evidence: play a match, shoot someone dead on your screen a fraction of a second before they kill you, and watch the bullet time travel back into the barrel of your gun because the server decided you had already died, despite that you hadn't yet on your screen

[Hamless Hog]

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Wait, you seriously think the bullets have travel time? Any evidence of this?

yes. evidence: play a match, shoot someone dead on your screen a fraction of a second before they kill you, and watch the bullet time travel back into the barrel of your gun because the server decided you had already died, despite that you hadn't yet on your screen

Thats suggests its hitscan, not travel time. Test it out for yourself. Get a REALLY long workshop map, grap an awp, and shoot an enemy from far away. Youll see theres no travel time.

[StonkOverflow]

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

that thread is about tick speed. this one is about the lack of hitscan in this game. please stay on topic

which implies allowing dead players deal damage for a short period of time after their death

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

it would be really great if cs was actually hitscan so that when you kill someone on your screen they die, just like they do in every other fair and balanced game.

by the way, can you please name those games? only PvP ones though

nope, not "dead players". players who were living on their screen when they fired the shot on their screen. considering it from both players' perspectives, they both encountered the exact same thing: they lethally shot the other. it just happens that the one with 5ms ping gets to live and the one with 10ms ping gets to die and contribute nothing, not even the fair kill he got on the other guy

[StonkOverflow]

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

yes. evidence: play a match, shoot someone dead on your screen a fraction of a second before they kill you, and watch the bullet time travel back into the barrel of your gun because the server decided you had already died, despite that you hadn't yet on your screen

Thats suggests its hitscan, not travel time. Test it out for yourself. Get a REALLY long workshop map, grap an awp, and shoot an enemy from far away. Youll see theres no travel time.

it suggests it's server-side hitreg, not hitscan. you'd know that if you read the off-topic post the other guy linked

[Hamless Hog]

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Thats suggests its hitscan, not travel time. Test it out for yourself. Get a REALLY long workshop map, grap an awp, and shoot an enemy from far away. Youll see theres no travel time.

it suggests it's server-side hitreg, not hitscan. you'd know that if you read the off-topic post the other guy linked

We arent talking about it being server sided hitreg or not. We are talking about if its hitscan or travel time. I know its server sided hitreg.

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

which implies allowing dead players deal damage for a short period of time after their death


by the way, can you please name those games? only PvP ones though

nope, not "dead players". players who were living on their screen when they fired the shot on their screen. considering it from both players' perspectives, they both encountered the exact same thing: they lethally shot the other. it just happens that the one with 5ms ping gets to live and the one with 10ms ping gets to die and contribute nothing, not even the fair kill he got on the other guy

well they are dead players on the server already, so I call them dead. they just don't know they are dead yet. and not everybody plays with 5-10 ms ping, from what I see on EU servers people usually have 40 ms ping on average.

either way, my opinion is that it will hurt this game, and killing each other at the same time just feels like a cheap unity game (at least that's the only place where I saw killing each other with hitscan weapons) (no, I never played Doom 1 or Doom 2 in multiplayer)

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Thats suggests its hitscan, not travel time. Test it out for yourself. Get a REALLY long workshop map, grap an awp, and shoot an enemy from far away. Youll see theres no travel time.

it suggests it's server-side hitreg, not hitscan. you'd know that if you read the off-topic post the other guy linked

@Hogarth is correct, hitscan can be both server-side hitreg hitscan or client-side hitreg hitscan.
it can also be server-side hitreg projectile or client-side hitreg projectile, as opposed to hitscan.
I explained it in the thread I linked.
@Hogarth, OP calls server-side hitreg hitscan not actually hitscan, in his opinion, only client-side hitreg hitscan is what hitscan is. his source on this terminology: he has played a video game before. wikipedia, from his words, is not to be trusted because I, or somebody else, could edit it at any time just before replying.

[StonkOverflow]

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

it suggests it's server-side hitreg, not hitscan. you'd know that if you read the off-topic post the other guy linked

We arent talking about it being server sided hitreg or not.

yes we are, it's literally what the body of the post is about

[StonkOverflow]

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

nope, not "dead players". players who were living on their screen when they fired the shot on their screen. considering it from both players' perspectives, they both encountered the exact same thing: they lethally shot the other. it just happens that the one with 5ms ping gets to live and the one with 10ms ping gets to die and contribute nothing, not even the fair kill he got on the other guy

well they are dead players on the server already, so I call them dead. they just don't know they are dead yet. and not everybody plays with 5-10 ms ping, from what I see on EU servers people usually have 40 ms ping on average.

either way, my opinion is that it will hurt this game, and killing each other at the same time just feels like a cheap unity game (at least that's the only place where I saw killing each other with hitscan weapons) (no, I never played Doom 1 or Doom 2 in multiplayer)

splitgate, unlike this game, has hitscan. it's entirely possible for two people to kill each other at the same time. this makes perfect sense, as it is a) fairer and b) far more realistic. hope this helps!

[Jzson]

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Originally posted by StonkOverflow:

it suggests it's server-side hitreg, not hitscan. you'd know that if you read the off-topic post the other guy linked

I know its server sided hitreg.

glad you got on board with this post, good to see we can all agree on at least one thing