Players must not be treated as cheaters for getting 20h VAC Live cooldowns

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Simple truth is that those VAC Live cooldowns are experimental since they are temporary.

If VAC Live — which is a complex of server-side cheater-like behavior detection algorithms — had no false positives whatsoever, it wouldn't have been handing out cooldowns, it would've been handing out permanent bans.

It also seems that VAC Live cooldowns are given out much more often to newer accounts and to accounts with low Trust Factor.

I had a friend who only just recently came from CS 1.6 to CS2 (yes, completely skipping CS:GO), he has a really bad network connection, he's been pretty bad at the game and he got a VAC Live cooldown. After that nothing happened, he's still not banned, but the fact is that there are false positives.

So please stop witch hunting people in discussions for getting those cooldowns. Check their csstats, demos, etc before haccusing. I've personally seen game bans being lifted. There are a lot of cheaters, true, but not everyone is cheating.

[Corvus Glaive]

Why? Seriously, if someone got vac it's the best and most significant mark that they did something wrong.

[Chiyoko]

Sane people know that there were tons of false positives in the past.
Not to mention those are just cooldowns and not even bans (no bans in the profile).

Only trolls like moris came here and call cheaters everyone for whatever reason.
This forum can't boast of having smart people unfortunately.

Don't waste your time on explaining things here, people on this forum don't need it, they only want to see someone is agree with them and that's all.

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Originally posted by Corvus Glaive:

Why? Seriously, if someone got vac it's the best and most significant mark that they did something wrong.

I'm talking about temporary VAC Live cooldowns. They are experimental and have much more false positives than traditional VAC does. Thus they are temporary. Therefore they must not be treated as a significant mark that they did something wrong.

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Originally posted by Chiyoko:

Don't waste your time on explaining things here, people on this forum don't need it, they only want to see someone is agree with them and that's all.

Honestly I feel like this quite often indeed…

[Corvus Glaive]

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

Originally posted by Corvus Glaive:

Why? Seriously, if someone got vac it's the best and most significant mark that they did something wrong.

I'm talking about temporary VAC Live cooldowns. They are experimental and have much more false positives than traditional VAC does. Thus they are temporary. Therefore they must not be treated as a significant mark that they did something wrong.

How do you know about how many false positives were there? Any official stats to share? Or just another afterthoughts with no solid base?

Temporary or not, it's a restriction that's triggered by certain actions. Actions that ruins other players experience, is that cheating or anything else.

[Шышка extremereportbot.com]

real

[Ponyeater]

Lord Gaben has spoken. Eternal Low Trust Matchmaking torment for you! This is your punishment for defying the Divine Order of... I mean, for breaking the TOS of Counter-Strike. Yes.

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Originally posted by Corvus Glaive:

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

I'm talking about temporary VAC Live cooldowns. They are experimental and have much more false positives than traditional VAC does. Thus they are temporary. Therefore they must not be treated as a significant mark that they did something wrong.

How do you know about how many false positives were there? Any official stats to share? Or just another afterthoughts with no solid base?

Temporary or not, it's a restriction that's triggered by certain actions. Actions that ruins other players experience, is that cheating or anything else.

Sure! Here's a ban being lifted for playing in a virtual machine:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/4039228198241213867/

There also was a false ban wave, those bans were lifted:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cs2/comments/18bf3gk/cs2_false_ban_wave/

Also infamous bans for m_yaw 99999999. Poggu is still banned for that.

Here is a (quite outdated, maybe, I don't want to check on my own account) guide on how to trigger a false positive ban for spinning inside an invulnerable teammate's head on warmup and hitting the head with the negev:
https://youtu.be/fiGarzzt9dQ?si=p8clUG3JcKKyVfh2

Here you can see removed bans: https://www.convars.com/csgostats/en/bans
Removed bans are, well, obviously, false positives.
Unfortunately it's all 3rd party tracking of official sources (Steam API) so it's not the whole picture, and Valve aren't sharing any stats officially regarding CS. So it's easy to say "you don't have any official stats to share" because there simply aren't any official stats at all.

"it's a restriction that's triggered by certain actions" — and those certain actions aren't only cheating, but also it seems network connection problems and things like that. Network problems of one player don't ruin experience of other players.

Again, if VAC Live did not cause false positives, bans would've been permanent, they wouldn't just be 1 day cooldowns.

Originally posted by Ponyeater:

Lord Gaben has spoken. Eternal Low Trust Matchmaking torment for you! This is your punishment for defying the Divine Order of... I mean, for breaking the TOS of Counter-Strike. Yes.

I hope low trust will never happen to me again. xD

[Corvus Glaive]

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

Originally posted by Corvus Glaive:

How do you know about how many false positives were there? Any official stats to share? Or just another afterthoughts with no solid base?

Temporary or not, it's a restriction that's triggered by certain actions. Actions that ruins other players experience, is that cheating or anything else.

Sure! Here's a ban being lifted for playing in a virtual machine:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/4039228198241213867/

There also was a false ban wave, those bans were lifted:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cs2/comments/18bf3gk/cs2_false_ban_wave/

Also infamous bans for m_yaw 99999999. Poggu is still banned for that.

Here you can see removed bans: https://www.convars.com/csgostats/en/bans
Removed bans are, well, obviously, false positives.
Unfortunately it's all 3rd party tracking of official sources (Steam API) so it's not the whole picture, and Valve aren't sharing any stats officially regarding CS. So it's easy to say "you don't have any official stats to share" because there simply aren't any official stats at all.

"it's a restriction that's triggered by certain actions" — and those certain actions aren't only cheating, but also it seems network connection problems and things like that. Network problems of one player don't ruin experience of other players.

Again, if VAC Live did not cause false positives, bans would've been permanent, they wouldn't just be 1 day cooldowns.

Originally posted by Ponyeater:

Lord Gaben has spoken. Eternal Low Trust Matchmaking torment for you! This is your punishment for defying the Divine Order of... I mean, for breaking the TOS of Counter-Strike. Yes.

I hope low trust will never happen to me again. xD

So you have no actual data and basically no data at all, right? :)

Statistics is not about refering to reddit, u know?

You're making things up here, dude.

[Decebal]

I would consider being too good at the game if it accused me for cheating xD I would be so proud

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Originally posted by Corvus Glaive:

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

Sure! Here's a ban being lifted for playing in a virtual machine:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/4039228198241213867/

There also was a false ban wave, those bans were lifted:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cs2/comments/18bf3gk/cs2_false_ban_wave/

Also infamous bans for m_yaw 99999999. Poggu is still banned for that.

Here you can see removed bans: https://www.convars.com/csgostats/en/bans
Removed bans are, well, obviously, false positives.
Unfortunately it's all 3rd party tracking of official sources (Steam API) so it's not the whole picture, and Valve aren't sharing any stats officially regarding CS. So it's easy to say "you don't have any official stats to share" because there simply aren't any official stats at all.

"it's a restriction that's triggered by certain actions" — and those certain actions aren't only cheating, but also it seems network connection problems and things like that. Network problems of one player don't ruin experience of other players.

Again, if VAC Live did not cause false positives, bans would've been permanent, they wouldn't just be 1 day cooldowns.


I hope low trust will never happen to me again. xD

So you have no actual data and basically no data at all, right? :)

Statistics is not about refering to reddit, u know?

You're making things up here, dude.

Are you trolling me? I just said that Valve are not sharing any official data on false positives.

I however shared a lot of false positives that really did take place. And since there were false positives at all (and quite a lot actually), they are not giving out permanent bans for VAC Live detections. Therefore VAC Live cooldowns must not be treated like a 100% proof of a player cheating.

If you'll continue with this "you don't have data" I'll consider you to be a troll and won't reply anymore, since replying to you is saying the same stuff over and over again.

Originally posted by Decebal:

I would consider being too good at the game if it accused me for cheating xD I would be so proud

The thing is it doesn't even usually happen to people who are good at the game, it just happens randomly, mostly for network issues I believe but not sure — I haven't seen enough examples to make a point

[Pod]

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

Sure!

Thanks for this info, while I did want to believe people posting it about it here, some outright lied about not cheating, then private profiles etc. I thought maybe these were deserved but guess if it's already happened before some of these people must have been genuine and it was a wrong cooldown

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Originally posted by Pod:

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

Sure!

Thanks for this info, while I did want to believe people posting it about it here, some outright lied about not cheating, then private profiles etc. I thought maybe these were deserved but guess if it's already happened before some of these people must have been genuine and it was a wrong cooldown

Some sure are cheating. I checked csstats for some and saw matches with 50 kills 100% headshot rate so that's no wonder they got banned. But in other cases it could've just been something else like network issues like how it happened to my friend.

[♛⁧Schultheiß]

In my matches, I only saw players receive the 20 hour cooldown after they toggled blatant cheats. So while I can sympathize with those who got issued false positives, the vac live update definitely improved the cheating situation massively. And we know that most people crying on these forums aren't false positives.

[Chiyoko]

Originally posted by kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

The thing is it doesn't even usually happen to people who are good at the game, it just happens randomly, mostly for network issues I believe but not sure — I haven't seen enough examples to make a point

Probably because the packet loss might look like cheating from the server side.

For example, a CT player is watching A Long on Dust 2 and is attacked from Short. While the CT player moves his crosshair to the enemy he gets a packet loss, then kills the T player.
For the server it might look like the CT player is watching Long, then the T player is peeking him, but the CT player doesn't react, and then the CT player instantly get his crosshair on the T player's head like the most blatant aimbot and kills the enemy.

So if AI anti-cheat doesn't have any anti-lag and packet loss measures, then these moments can trigger the cooldowns too.

And as far as I know, many players have jitter \ stuttering and rubberbanding problems.