A discussion which isn't asbout the R8. BHopping with a macro, legit or not - Thoughts?

[DIV1D3]

TL;DR
Read the whole damn post, or just vote legit or not legit based on your pre-determined opinion.
Though reading all of this might enlighten you.

So after just watching a video concerning HOUNGOUNGAGNE's BHop macro I 100% agree with him. I think I've only watched one other video from him, but it's pretty obvious he's not a so-called cheater.
To sum up his video about using a macro to BHop instead of the mouse wheel, you're still spamming the jump action, a macro is basically the same thing as a bind, and scripting is a lot more obvious and BHoping with a macro is not an unfair advantage.
You could go an watch his video about it, though it's 15 mins long and most people aren't interested in such.

So, a macro is pretty much the same as using the mouse wheel, except you are only holding or pressing a button instead of pressing a button down multiple times.

Say for example two players have a BHop macro, and a BHop bind respectively. Both of them have it bound to mousewheel down, and both of them are effectively spamming spacebar. The only difference is that the player with the bind has to do a very simple task multiple times, as opposed to a simple task once.
A macro is simply that, "a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to perform a particular task.", it's not a script, or a hack, but rather just a shortcut.

To be perfectly honest, I'm just about to make a macro for it, I've been trying to BHop for about 6 months now and I'd say I'm only just above average, the timing for jumps I can do about 90% of the time, it's just the strafing I have problems with. And that's why a macro is not a cheat, unless of course you make a macro that jumps, moves your mouse to the left, and while also pressing the D key, and then switch to....and so on. Which obviously you may as well go the full mile and automate every mouse and keyboard movement to prefire every corner and throw perfect nades each round.

Share your opinions below. Also. The R8 is so broken.

[DIV1D3]

Also, just a pointer, telling me to use the mouse wheel will not persuade me, obviously just holding down spacebar is a lot more streamline, and my mouse wheel is also kinda dodgy and doesn't click consistantly (it's the reason why switched my "Previous Weapon" action to my Thumb Button 1 instead of the scroll wheel).

[nevr3000]

A macro to spam spacebar is not the same as the mousewheel. Houngoungage misses this point also, so let me explain.
A macro is multiple actions automated. The mousewheel however is not. It only registers "ticks" of your wheel.
Why shouldn't this be allowed? Quite simply put, automated actions are not allowed and are already limited in CSGO. Compare it to source or 1.6, the "pause" function was already taken out of the console commands to lock out such scripts.
Valve should take a clearer stance on the matter, and either 1) punish and detect such macros that auto-fire/jump/recoil and so forth or 2) allow it and bring back the pause command.
It's currently clearly grey area, ESEA and similar disallow it, and the pro scene also forbids it.
I'm not for labelling it as cheating, but either a hardcoded blockade of such macro usage or a soft punishment should be implemented. It's too shady, and allowing it opens the door to many other macros... You have no idea where the limit is if input related scripting is legit.

[Sol_Roller]

Removing that need for skill is cheating, plain and simple.

[DIV1D3]

Originally posted by nevr3000:

A macro to spam spacebar is not the same as the mousewheel. Houngoungage misses this point also, so let me explain.
A macro is multiple actions automated. The mousewheel however is not. It only registers "ticks" of your wheel.
Why shouldn't this be allowed? Quite simply put, automated actions are not allowed and are already limited in CSGO. Compare it to source or 1.6, the "pause" function was already taken out of the console commands to lock out such scripts.
Valve should take a clearer stance on the matter, and either 1) punish and detect such macros that auto-fire/jump/recoil and so forth or 2) allow it and bring back the pause command.
It's currently clearly grey area, ESEA and similar disallow it, and the pro scene also forbids it.
I'm not for labelling it as cheating, but either a hardcoded blockade of such macro usage or a soft punishment should be implemented. It's too shady, and allowing it opens the door to many other macros... You have no idea where the limit is if input related scripting is legit.

True, macros can do a huge array of things that are considerably unfair, but BHopping is not one of them. I didn't mean for a "Are macros legit or not?", but rather I wanted it to be specific to BHopping as it's a simple shortcut to do one single action consistantly and in a streamline nature.

[DIV1D3]

Originally posted by Sol_Roller:

Removing that need for skill is cheating, plain and simple.

Removing the need to scroll the wheel down? How does that take skill?
BHopping with a macro is the same exact thing as making a bind to buy an AK/M4, armour and nades.

[yakut005]

Good Gour Link

[Santas]

if you think that bhoping is only spamming jump button (mouse wheel) you never bhoped...
script that is only spamming jump button will never let you bhoping properly..you need much more things in that script to bhop properly...

[nevr3000]

Originally posted by Axis | DIV1D3:

Originally posted by nevr3000:

A macro to spam spacebar is not the same as the mousewheel. Houngoungage misses this point also, so let me explain.
A macro is multiple actions automated. The mousewheel however is not. It only registers "ticks" of your wheel.
Why shouldn't this be allowed? Quite simply put, automated actions are not allowed and are already limited in CSGO. Compare it to source or 1.6, the "pause" function was already taken out of the console commands to lock out such scripts.
Valve should take a clearer stance on the matter, and either 1) punish and detect such macros that auto-fire/jump/recoil and so forth or 2) allow it and bring back the pause command.
It's currently clearly grey area, ESEA and similar disallow it, and the pro scene also forbids it.
I'm not for labelling it as cheating, but either a hardcoded blockade of such macro usage or a soft punishment should be implemented. It's too shady, and allowing it opens the door to many other macros... You have no idea where the limit is if input related scripting is legit.

True, macros can do a huge array of things that are considerably unfair, but BHopping is not one of them. I didn't mean for a "Are macros legit or not?", but rather I wanted it to be specific to BHopping as it's a simple shortcut to do one single action consistantly and in a streamline nature.

You could argue that auto jumping is not unfair, but how should the line be drawn? If input scripting is legit for auto jump, why isn't it legit for auto recoil control? Compare the argument and tell me it isn't equally as flawed:
1. Automated jumping is legit because you can do it by scrolling mousewheel (oversimplified, coming back to this in a bit).
2. Automated recoil control is legit because you can do it by pulling your mouse downwards.
Why is the second argument incorrect in your opinion compared to the first statement? It's not like it's something you can't do, the only difference is all I have to do is hold down a button.
It's opening pandora's box, and saying it's just about bhop, not about macros is ignoring the fact that this is intrinsically related.

Now to come back to "scrolling the mousewheel is basically the same as holding down automated jumping".
No, it is not. Not even close. One needs you to dedicate yourself to the action, the other just holds down a button.
Mousewheel jumping still requires timing (you can't just mindlessly scroll...) and it requires you to to do an extra action. Scrolling timed jumps + airstrafing is objectively harder than holding down spacebar and airstrafing. It does take away skill. It is not "the same".

[dazeFN]

I must learn this pathway to a power that some consider to be sploitz.

Seriously, I miss WOTLK and my stun lock build, lvl70 pvp was awesome, every button on my keyboard was bound to something, other than scroll lock and print screen. If there is a small advantage to be gained by anal probing a script or setting, I support it.

[Master]

Not legit, is a bannable offence.

[DIV1D3]

Originally posted by Santas:

if you think that bhoping is only spamming jump button (mouse wheel) you never bhoped...
script that is only spamming jump button will never let you bhoping properly..you need much more things in that script to bhop properly...

Uhhh, I realise, did you read my post? You're actually proving my point, you need a lot more than just the macro, a script increases your velocity without the need to strafe really at all, but with a macro you still need to do all of the strafing yourself.

Originally posted by nevr3000:

Originally posted by Axis | DIV1D3:

True, macros can do a huge array of things that are considerably unfair, but BHopping is not one of them. I didn't mean for a "Are macros legit or not?", but rather I wanted it to be specific to BHopping as it's a simple shortcut to do one single action consistantly and in a streamline nature.

You could argue that auto jumping is not unfair, but how should the line be drawn? If input scripting is legit for auto jump, why isn't it legit for auto recoil control? Compare the argument and tell me it isn't equally as flawed:
1. Automated jumping is legit because you can do it by scrolling mousewheel (oversimplified, coming back to this in a bit).
2. Automated recoil control is legit because you can do it by pulling your mouse downwards.
Why is the second argument incorrect in your opinion compared to the first statement? It's not like it's something you can't do, the only difference is all I have to do is hold down a button.
It's opening pandora's box, and saying it's just about bhop, not about macros is ignoring the fact that this is intrinsically related.

Now to come back to "scrolling the mousewheel is basically the same as holding down automated jumping".
No, it is not. Not even close. One needs you to dedicate yourself to the action, the other just holds down a button.
Mousewheel jumping still requires timing (you can't just mindlessly scroll...) and it requires you to to do an extra action. Scrolling timed jumps + airstrafing is objectively harder than holding down spacebar and airstrafing. It does take away skill. It is not "the same".

My perspective is that scrolling mouse wheel and holding spacebar are equally legit, sure looking at it as "You get the same result, but how you do it is what's wrong." is a good counter-arguement, but seeing as the result is so simple (jumping), compared to removing the need to aim (which you still need mind you, it's not a practice range where you and your target stand still), it's more of a convienence type of thing.

Originally posted by Fluffy bunny 🐰:

Not legit, is a bannable offence.

Why's that?

Originally posted by Badass Marauder:

scripting or marco is Vacable. so i wouldn't risk it op tho i use to on my main Auto click so i could spray duelies i was never banned.... AHK life

Having a macro cannot give you a VAC, it doesn't change the game files in any way.

[DIV1D3]

Originally posted by Badass Marauder:

Originally posted by Axis | DIV1D3:

Uhhh, I realise, did you read my post? You're actually proving my point, you need a lot more than just the macro, a script increases your velocity without the need to strafe really at all, but with a macro you still need to do all of the strafing yourself.


My perspective is that scrolling mouse wheel and holding spacebar are equally legit, sure looking at it as "You get the same result, but how you do it is what's wrong." is a good counter-arguement, but seeing as the result is so simple (jumping), compared to removing the need to aim (which you still need mind you, it's not a practice range where you and your target stand still), it's more of a convienence type of thing.



Why's that?


Having a macro cannot give you a VAC, it doesn't change the game files in any way.

u can be overwatched

Yes well that isn't a VAC though, but even with a macro you still have to strafe for yourself, so it wouldn't be too obvious to an Overwatcher I guess.

[Stevenson Family]

Originally posted by Axis | DIV1D3:

To be perfectly honest, I'm just about to make a macro for it, I've been trying to BHop for about 6 months now and I'd say I'm only just above average, the timing for jumps I can do about 90% of the time, it's just the strafing I have problems with. And that's why a macro is not a cheat,

Thats why it is a cheat.


It's to enable you to do something you can't really do legitimatley.

['Guti]

Why are you trying to justify a bhop script?

[NZL]

Originally posted by 'Gasper:

Why are you trying to justify a bhop script?

because he feels guilty