do other fps games have subtick?

[elite outsider]

does valorant have subtick? do any other games have it?
why or why not?

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

valorant doesn't because 128 tick error is negligible enough, but valorant requires wider connection bandwidth than cs2 for that reason (cs2 on faceit however is a monster compared to valorant)

most other games don't need subtick because they don't rely on server side hit registration, they trust the client on everything and then put server-sided checks to check if something was even possible, like running too fast, jumping too high, flying, shooting too fast, etc

also I don't know any other game which has subtick

[elite outsider]

Publicado originalmente por kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

most other games don't need subtick because they don't rely on server side hit registration

gotta be honest i really don't believe this part...

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Publicado originalmente por elite outsider:

Publicado originalmente por kabanod1m #NotoToxicity:

most other games don't need subtick because they don't rely on server side hit registration

gotta be honest i really don't believe this part...

you can check it yourself in any game you want by toggling your internet off and immediately shooting somebody, in most client-side hitreg games you'll see hit effects (blood splatters, etc) even without actually being connected to the server anymore

it was never like that in any CS game and it wasn't like that in Valorant at least the last time I played

[elite outsider]

that's just clientside prediction

everything as far back as quakeworld and hl1 has that
(this is how you get shots that bleed/play sound but don't really hit)

the clientside-only ones obviously aren't real hits (the client isn't authoritative), the server DOES confirm the actual hits

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Publicado originalmente por elite outsider:

that's just clientside prediction

everything as far back as quakeworld and hl1 has that
(this is how you get shots that bleed/play sound but don't really hit)

the server DOES confirm the actual hits

well in CS and Valorant I've never had a shot which I heard, saw, but that didn't actually hit. had a lot of this stuff in Warzone, Minecraft (client side predicted arrows) and PUBG though

I'm going to bed now, sorry, tomorrow I'm going to check if hl1 has that sort of client-side prediction because I've never had a hit like that there too (I'm talking about HLDM of course)

+rep for Half-Life by the way:D glad to oblige a fellow scientist

[elite outsider]

okay yeah i get it, that seems right in my experience for cs2/csgo as well - i haven't seen the client only fake hits

it seems like the client really aggressively stops doing things and drops during connection issues (also seems like it's different in casual vs comp/premiere - casual tolerates more network issues without the client dropping)

in any case, the server is probably the authority with everything you listed

peer to peer games are usually where you see client-authoritative stuff (and it just becomes pure cheating immediately)

also the magic bullet bug in cs2 probably counts as the client confirming hits in a certain sense ;]

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Publicado originalmente por elite outsider:

okay yeah i get it, that seems right in my experience for cs2/csgo as well - i haven't seen the client only fake hits

it seems like the client really aggressively stops doing things and drops during connection issues (also seems like it's different in casual vs comp/premiere - casual tolerates more network issues without the client dropping)

in any case, the server is probably the authority with everything you listed

peer to peer games are usually where you see client-authoritative stuff

also the magic bullet bug in cs2 probably counts as the client confirming hits in a certain sense ;]

magic bullet wasn't client confirming, it was something to do with subtick, using a subtick-related bug you could trick the server into thinking your coordinates are Not-a-Number and therefore be placed on x0 y0 z0, which is usually somewhere near Mid out of bounds on CS2 maps, and also I've seen something strange with sending tick_count = 16777216 in your packets, but I'm not sure at all what exactly that should do

also one more test to definitively prove that a game has client-sided hitreg — tell your target to stay still, then continuously scream "AAAAAAAAA" on Discord or some other voip, and as soon as your scream cuts off when you disable your connection your victim should start moving. shortly after you shoot them, re-enable your connection.

if the victim gets hit — the game has client-side hitreg, and if they don't get hit (don't get their health lowered) — the game has server-side hitreg because you never really shot the target from the server's perspective (even subtick wouldn't help in this situation:DDD)

good night!

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Publicado originalmente por elite outsider:

that's just clientside prediction

everything as far back as quakeworld and hl1 has that
(this is how you get shots that bleed/play sound but don't really hit)

the clientside-only ones obviously aren't real hits (the client isn't authoritative), the server DOES confirm the actual hits

hello, just checked, yes, thankfully my memory isn't that bad, hl1 doesn't have client-side hit prediction, in fact, the gun doesn't even actually fire without an active connection, and if I start firing before I cut off my connection bullets just go straight through players and hit the world behind

[Sigma]

Overwatch has high precision mouse input, which is basically subtick but good.

[coda]

Publicado originalmente por elite outsider:

does valorant have subtick? do any other games have it?
why or why not?

Not yet, because valve just invented it.

[kabanod1m #NotoToxicity]

Publicado originalmente por Sigma:

Overwatch has high precision mouse input, which is basically subtick but good.

This is wrong per explanation from an Overwatch developer: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/new-feature-%E2%80%93-high-precision-mouse-input-gameplay-option/422094

What they did was they've allowed the game client to send information about player's camera angle at the moment of attacking or using an ability, and the server uses that instead of current camera angle. That's actually very good for their game because they chose to run their servers on 16 tickrate, while we are complaining about 64 and even Minecraft is on 20 tickrate.

Subtick in CS2 also sends when the input was performed (for server-side hit registration and lag compensation) and it works with all inputs, including movement. Not just mouse. If you noticed that counter-strafing and shooting at the same time has become easier in CS2 (I did notice), that is why.

But yes basically Overwatch has subtick and had it before CS2, kind of, but calling it "subtick but good" is plain wrong because it's like 10% of CS2's subtick functionality or so.

[MAXE]

subtick is bad, because there is delay and people can cheat with it !

we need pure 128 tick servers instead !

128 and 128 = pure 128 tick

64 x 64 = 128 subtick server

32 x 32 = 64 subtick ..

We want pure 128 tick servers and not subtick servers !

or better yet 200 tick servers, so it can support 200 fps

[Chiyoko]

Publicado originalmente por M-A-X-E ™:

128 and 128 = pure 128 tick

64 x 64 = 128 subtick server

32 x 32 = 64 subtick ..

The hell is this even?
The number means amount of ticks per second.
And the only difference between a tick and a subtick is that subtick is using the information when exactly the key has been pressed between ticks and nothing else.

[󠁳⁧⁧255h]

Subtick is a joke, they just use timestamp on any action and approximate stuff based on time passed. As any method it has own flaws and problems.

[叉cosiek]

Publicado originalmente por Sigma:

Overwatch has high precision mouse input, which is basically subtick but good.

Yeah