Valve doesn't care, 10+ years of rampant cheating. VAC downgraded, Qualifier AC downgraded

[Buddy]

-Counter-Strike's official servers have used VAC for many years, one of the worst anti-cheats known to man.
-VACNet / VACLive (Valve's "AI" anti-cheat) has had multiple times where they had the data to ban 99% of cheaters, but decided to lower their trust factor instead
-CS developers have refused to implement basic checks that even faceit SERVERSIDE had, for more than THREE YEARS, that detected almost every aimbot in CSGO.

Fast forward to CS2:
-Tournaments used to use the best anti-cheat in the world (Faceit, banning ~98% of cheaters), for these recent online qualifiers they used the Akros anti-cheat (Similar level to challengeme/challengermode, which has a lower-level system access, but is still a subpar anti-cheat)
-They SOMEHOW made the anti-cheat worse in CS2 than in CSGO

Summary:
For those who thought the cheating problem was bad, I promise you it's been the SAME ISSUE for over a DECADE.
You vote with your wallet people, and you're telling valve that you frankly don't give a ♥♥♥♥.

These people don't care about you. They don't care about your game. They don't care about your experience.

I've seen pros quit because the devs don't care, I've seen people who played since 2010/2011 quit because of this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I implore you to actually do something about this, or nothing will ever change.

[Buddy]

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

Not to be mean man, but you have no idea what you're talking about.
Name a better anti-cheat, and what better functionality it has, because I'm pretty sure you have no idea what any of them even do.

I know while FaceIT is decently robust, I know they're corrupt. Reddit r/cs2 recently had a thread showing a FaceIT admin boosting with cheaters.

FaceIT is by-passed. It's not rocket science and the people who have the money and wish to cheat on that platform, can. The reselling market for FaceIT level 10 accounts is at an all time high.

1) Accounts have nothing to do with the anti-cheat
2) Moderators have nothing to do with the anti-cheat
3) Corruption has nothing to do with the anti-cheat
4) Every anti-cheat can be bypassed, and will be bypassed. No it's not rocket science, but most cheat "developers" definitely couldn't 'bypass' it. Assuming anything otherwise, is incorrect.
5) No, not everybody with money can just buy a faceit cheat

If every developer sold a faceit cheat to whoever had money, they'd most-likely just be a silver with cheats, end up getting the cheat manually analyzed, and adding a possibility of getting the entire cheat banned*. It's a bad business model, hence why you're unlikely* to find a public Faceit cheat, regardless of budget.

There have been mods that have sold unbans for less than $50 (a long time ago)
I didn't say the platform was good, I said technically they have the strongest anti-cheat.

[76561197963519852]

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

I know while FaceIT is decently robust, I know they're corrupt. Reddit r/cs2 recently had a thread showing a FaceIT admin boosting with cheaters.

FaceIT is by-passed. It's not rocket science and the people who have the money and wish to cheat on that platform, can. The reselling market for FaceIT level 10 accounts is at an all time high.

1) Accounts have nothing to do with the anti-cheat
2) Moderators have nothing to do with the anti-cheat
3) Corruption has nothing to do with the anti-cheat
4) Every anti-cheat can be bypassed, and will be bypassed
5) No, not everybody with money can just buy a faceit cheat

If every developer sold a faceit cheat to whoever had money, they'd most-likely just be a silver with cheats, end up getting the cheat manually analyzed, and adding a possibility of getting the entire cheat banned*.

Well, we're going to have to disagree. FaceIT cheats while once, a more exlcusive endeavor, have proliferated with the rise of professional cheating services. They have more than enough demand to sell the cheats to a rabid base of players who need the "LVL10" next to their name.

Until FaceIT limits the platform to verified only, nothing will change. It's a pay-to-win platform and their anti-cheat is obsolete in various ways.

[Renos]

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

Publicado originalmente por Renos:

faceit is far from the best AC in the world
when actually put to the test it fails really quickly.

Again, I'll repeat.
Name a better anti-cheat, and what better functionality it has, because I'm pretty sure you

vanguard is technically better
at the cost of all user privacy and 0 ability to mod the game or play on linux,

Denuvo anti-tamper is also technically better as it would then require the game actually be cracked, As of now there only 2 people on the planet actually interested in hacking denuvo out of games and both of them don't condone cheating online, It also has the cost of a massive hit to performance and 0 ability to mod the game.

Vac net is better in that its purely server side and wouldn't invade user privacy and also not need to even engage in the dreaded cat and mouse game. With the issue of having to be really lenient less we ban legit players. And another downside of not being to run in real time in every match.

[Buddy]

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

1) Accounts have nothing to do with the anti-cheat
2) Moderators have nothing to do with the anti-cheat
3) Corruption has nothing to do with the anti-cheat
4) Every anti-cheat can be bypassed, and will be bypassed
5) No, not everybody with money can just buy a faceit cheat

If every developer sold a faceit cheat to whoever had money, they'd most-likely just be a silver with cheats, end up getting the cheat manually analyzed, and adding a possibility of getting the entire cheat banned*.

Well, we're going to have to disagree. FaceIT cheats while once, a more exlcusive endeavor, have proliferated with the rise of professional cheating services. They have more than enough demand to sell the cheats to a rabid base of players who need the "LVL10" next to their name.

Until FaceIT limits the platform to verified only, nothing will change. It's a pay-to-win platform and their anti-cheat is obsolete in various ways.

You keep saying their anti-cheat is obsolete, when again there's not an anti-cheat that's stronger than it.
It's not agree to disagree, it's not a debate, it's a fact.
I know what they both do, one is significantly stronger.

You having a bad experience on faceit or hearing people complaining about it, doesn't make it true.

[76561197963519852]

Publicado originalmente por Renos:

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

Again, I'll repeat.
Name a better anti-cheat, and what better functionality it has, because I'm pretty sure you

vanguard is technically better
at the cost of all user privacy and 0 ability to mod the game or play on linux,

Denuvo anti-tamper is also technically better as it would then require the game actually be cracked, As of now there only 2 people on the planet actually interested in hacking denuvo out of games and both of them don't condone cheating online, It also has the cost of a massive hit to performance and 0 ability to mod the game.

Vac net is better in that its purely server side and wouldn't invade user privacy and also not need to even engage in the dreaded cat and mouse game. With the issue of having to be really lenient less we ban legit players. And another downside of not being to run in real time in every match.

I think if Valve wants a future with it, they need to give users an alotment of 2 verified VACnet matches/day.

This would ensure there's a digital referee monitoring the match. I think that'd be fair.

[76561197963519852]

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Well, we're going to have to disagree. FaceIT cheats while once, a more exlcusive endeavor, have proliferated with the rise of professional cheating services. They have more than enough demand to sell the cheats to a rabid base of players who need the "LVL10" next to their name.

Until FaceIT limits the platform to verified only, nothing will change. It's a pay-to-win platform and their anti-cheat is obsolete in various ways.

You keep saying their anti-cheat is obsolete, when again there's not an anti-cheat that's stronger than it.
It's not agree to disagree, it's not a debate, it's a fact.
I know what they both do, one is significantly stronger.

You having a bad experience on faceit or hearing people complaining about it, doesn't make it true.

Being the best anti-cheat right now means nothing when it's simply a band-aid.

If game developers want to be serious about stopping cheaters, that first line of code that makes the game environment needs to be written with cheat exploitation in mind. The game itself needs to become part of the anti-cheat. Engineered from the ground up to make cheating exponentially more difficult than it currently is.

So, yeah, being the "best" anti-cheat isn't saying much right now. This is the same cope Valorant players meme.

[Hamless Hog]

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

They do care about money, that's the problem.
Cheaters used to buy more accounts than you, but now they don't because they're not even banning them.

Look at their balance sheet from skins.
The average "CS Youtuber" is really just a skins youtuber.
They get a ton of revenue from people who don't even have to deal with cheaters.

Vote with your wallet.
Stop playing and stop buying skins, or they'll never fix anything.

Cheaters are the ultimate "repeat customers".

The amount of customers they drive away will always be higher

[76561197963519852]

Publicado originalmente por Hogarth:

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Cheaters are the ultimate "repeat customers".

The amount of customers they drive away will always be higher

$1 billion in case openings says otherwise.

It's ok though. You keep posting the same thing for years on end never incorporating a single byte of new information into your programming. It doesn't get old or anything.

[Renos]

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Publicado originalmente por Hogarth:

The amount of customers they drive away will always be higher

$1 billion in case openings says otherwise.

It's ok though. You keep posting the same thing for years on end never incorporating a single byte of new information into your programming. It doesn't get old or anything.

and how do we know cheater were even opening cases
most of them don't.

[Buddy]

Publicado originalmente por Renos:

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

Again, I'll repeat.
Name a better anti-cheat, and what better functionality it has, because I'm pretty sure you

vanguard is technically better
at the cost of all user privacy and 0 ability to mod the game or play on linux,

Denuvo anti-tamper is also technically better as it would then require the game actually be cracked, As of now there only 2 people on the planet actually interested in hacking denuvo out of games and both of them don't condone cheating online, It also has the cost of a massive hit to performance and 0 ability to mod the game.

Vac net is better in that its purely server side and wouldn't invade user privacy and also not need to even engage in the dreaded cat and mouse game. With the issue of having to be really lenient less we ban legit players. And another downside of not being to run in real time in every match.

Extremely off-topic from my original post, but if we're exclusively talking about Faceit vs Vanguard AC:

1) Most anti-cheats will never support Linux for obvious reasons
2) Vanguard has a lower detection rating and efficiency rating, all while taking up more system resources.

If we're talking about the original point, then overall Valve's already stated they don't do an intrusive anti-cheat, but have numerous opportunities to increase the barrier of entry from either serverside, internal, or even usermode components.
It's a lack of trying at this point.

[Buddy]

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

You keep saying their anti-cheat is obsolete, when again there's not an anti-cheat that's stronger than it.
It's not agree to disagree, it's not a debate, it's a fact.
I know what they both do, one is significantly stronger.

You having a bad experience on faceit or hearing people complaining about it, doesn't make it true.

Being the best anti-cheat right now means nothing when it's simply a band-aid.

If game developers want to be serious about stopping cheaters, that first line of code that makes the game environment needs to be written with cheat exploitation in mind. The game itself needs to become part of the anti-cheat. Engineered from the ground up to make cheating exponentially more difficult than it currently is.

So, yeah, being the "best" anti-cheat isn't saying much right now. This is the same cope Valorant players meme.

That's called having internal and serverside anti-cheat components, which every modern game has.
I'm telling you Valve could significantly improve anti-cheat with their current components, have listed in this thread the times they have refused to add simple improvements, and you're still acting like we need actual referees for this to work.

When it comes to matchmaking or VAC itself for Valve dedicated servers, there is no real attempt to secure the matches.

I'll repeat one of the more obvious ones so that you get it. At one point they had 95% of cheaters flagged, and they didn't ban them. Then in CS2 they haven't implemented trust-factor, so those same confirmed cheaters are in your very matches.

[-you +me = ez major :D]

there is no such a thing like AI anticheat. ITS FAKE hello wake up guys. :))

[76561197963519852]

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Being the best anti-cheat right now means nothing when it's simply a band-aid.

If game developers want to be serious about stopping cheaters, that first line of code that makes the game environment needs to be written with cheat exploitation in mind. The game itself needs to become part of the anti-cheat. Engineered from the ground up to make cheating exponentially more difficult than it currently is.

So, yeah, being the "best" anti-cheat isn't saying much right now. This is the same cope Valorant players meme.

That's called having internal and serverside anti-cheat components, which every modern game has.
I'm telling you Valve could significantly improve anti-cheat with their current components, have listed in this thread the times they have refused to add simple improvements, and you're still acting like we need actual referees for this to work.

When it comes to matchmaking or VAC itself for Valve dedicated servers, there is no real attempt to secure the matches.

I'll repeat one of the more obvious ones so that you get it. At one point they had 95% of cheaters flagged, and they didn't ban them. Then in CS2 they haven't implemented trust-factor, so those same confirmed cheaters are in your very matches.

If you're the guy who's posted on reddit about the VAC module and how it was detected once it was by-passed, please understand I've reshared that information all over the CS-verse. I am on your side.

I know what you're saying is true. I don't have reason to doubt it. I'm just pointing out FaceIT isn't some gaming heaven either and has a host of problems related to cheating/boosting itself.

[Buddy]

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Publicado originalmente por Buddy:

That's called having internal and serverside anti-cheat components, which every modern game has.
I'm telling you Valve could significantly improve anti-cheat with their current components, have listed in this thread the times they have refused to add simple improvements, and you're still acting like we need actual referees for this to work.

When it comes to matchmaking or VAC itself for Valve dedicated servers, there is no real attempt to secure the matches.

I'll repeat one of the more obvious ones so that you get it. At one point they had 95% of cheaters flagged, and they didn't ban them. Then in CS2 they haven't implemented trust-factor, so those same confirmed cheaters are in your very matches.

If you're the guy who's posted on reddit about the VAC module and how it was detected once it was by-passed, please understand I've reshared that information all over the CS-verse.

I know what you're saying is true. I don't have reason to doubt it. I'm just pointing out FaceIT isn't some gaming heaven either and has a host of problems related to cheating/boosting itself.

I'm not sure what you mean by the first part, unless you're referencing the "vac bypass" meme that flagged nearly every cheat in existence, then Valve then refused to ban any of them.

I'm just reinforcing the overall point that Valve says they're trying and have been trying for a decade, but they're not.
We can disagree about anything, but as long as CS players understand that Matchmaking will never change, then I'm getting my point across and I'm happy.

[Hamless Hog]

Publicado originalmente por redacted:

Publicado originalmente por Hogarth:

The amount of customers they drive away will always be higher

$1 billion in case openings says otherwise.

It's ok though. You keep posting the same thing for years on end never incorporating a single byte of new information into your programming. It doesn't get old or anything.

How does that indicate otherwise? Imagine how much more it would be with no cheaters.

Why do you support cheaters?