Explaining CS2's Cheating Problem

[fweaky]

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

[DR. Kitty Kat]

Originally posted by 匚卂丂卄ㄖㄩㄒ:

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

THIS BULLSHEET HAS BEEN SAID FOR YEARS,.... VACNET ? REMEMBER THAT... THE CHEATS ARE THE SAME. VALVE JUST DOESNT WANT TO PUT FORTH THE EFFORT TO STOP CHEATERS... CHEATERS = MONEY U OUGHT TO KNOW THAT BY NOW.

[fweaky]

Originally posted by lewd:

Originally posted by 匚卂丂卄ㄖㄩㄒ:

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

imo this AI system at most can catch the spinbots and obvious rage cheaters

Well, that is true but I reckon if you give it time, it'll be able to detect legit cheaters too.

[fweaky]

Originally posted by 875926-859376-538456-3755634535:

Originally posted by 匚卂丂卄ㄖㄩㄒ:

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

THIS BULLSHEET HAS BEEN SAID FOR YEARS,.... VACNET ? REMEMBER THAT... THE CHEATS ARE THE SAME. VALVE JUST DOESNT WANT TO PUT FORTH THE EFFORT TO STOP CHEATERS... CHEATERS = MONEY U OUGHT TO KNOW THAT BY NOW.

Yea ik lol, the reason im saying this is because of new/returning players so they can understand.
PLOT TWIST: What if Valve owns all the major cheating companies like Inuria, Midnight, Memesense, Fecurity, Skeet, etc.

[fweaky]

Originally posted by mxwlCS:

Originally posted by 匚卂丂卄ㄖㄩㄒ:

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

That maybe true but AI will never be able to detect ESP

Yea but that's why Valve should either have a memory monitor running in the background or they should just review gameplay of cheaters using ESP only. ESP itself can't be detected by AI alone but with the help of intrusive software and studying open source internal and external cheats, the AI should be better in the future. The AI system alone is currently sucking balls lol.

[Sethioz]

Originally posted by 匚卂丂卄ㄖㄩㄒ:

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

that's not how anti-cheat works.
VAC scans game's memory for any code changes, that's how it detects cheats.

it doesn't detect external radars and wallhacks, because they don't make any changes to code. those can only be banned manually by blacklisting cheat's specific signature when its running, which means AC must be able to scan running processes, which could be intrusive in some cases and violate privacy laws in some countries.

i dont know if VAC has such feature, but some anti-cheats do scan for aiming patterns, which can be used to detect whetever player uses some kind of aim-assist or not, but in that case some gaming keyboards and mice have macro-software built-in, you cant ban someone for using a mouse or keyboard that has such feature. for example i used "bloody gun v3" mouse in csgo, it anti-recoil feature. that would never trigger any kind of ban, because it's built into mouse, it doesn't have any software on PC at all.

only way to prevent wallhacks and external radars, is to change how game works.
reason why wallhack is possible, is because your game client is always aware of where all enemy players are and this is because server sends that data to every client, then game hack reads that data from game's memory and displays it on either external radar or on overlay that is on top of game.

if server would NOT send this data, then your game client would not be aware of the enemy player location and therefore you cant possibly make a wallhack as this data doesn't exist.
server is always aware of all player locations, so server would only send this data prior to before players can see eachother, otherwise enemy player should not "exist" for you.

cheaters would still have slight advantage as they'd be able to see enemies just slightly before they would appear, like they'd win peeking wars, but otherwise they wouldn't see them from great distances.
it would definetely help remove cheats where one player is able to see where entire enemy team is and then give info .. one cheater in team and give info to others aswell. i've seen it many times.
for example one player plays bad, but when suspected cheater is dead, then other players seem to have developed an ability to see thru walls aswell .. it's quite obvious that the cheater is giving them info.


NOTE to newbie players - footsteps are not only sounds you're able to hear. most players have bad headset or no sound, so they don't understand this, but you can hear other sounds aswell, such as reloading, when hostage is being taken (like sound that your clothes make when you shuffle them) and also hostage's breathing, its super quiet, but can be heard. in office i often camp around corner and listen for that breathing sound. even if enemy don't make footsteps, i can still hear the hostage's breathing.
you can also hear when someone uses scope's zoom or changes firemode on certain weapons.
if you do any of that around me, i'd instantly hear you and know your approximate location.
so not everyone who jumps at you and prefires is a cheater, i've been called a cheater many times aswell because i use those other sounds to pinpoint enemy location.


CS2 needs overwatch system, i think that was best thing in csgo. it really helped eliminate undetectable cheats from game. it was also relaxing to watch some matches.

[Renos]

Originally posted by Sethioz:

Originally posted by 匚卂丂卄ㄖㄩㄒ:

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

that's not how anti-cheat works.
VAC scans game's memory for any code changes, that's how it detects cheats.

it doesn't detect external radars and wallhacks, because they don't make any changes to code. those can only be banned manually by blacklisting cheat's specific signature when its running, which means AC must be able to scan running processes, which could be intrusive in some cases and violate privacy laws in some countries.

i dont know if VAC has such feature, but some anti-cheats do scan for aiming patterns, which can be used to detect whetever player uses some kind of aim-assist or not, but in that case some gaming keyboards and mice have macro-software built-in, you cant ban someone for using a mouse or keyboard that has such feature. for example i used "bloody gun v3" mouse in csgo, it anti-recoil feature. that would never trigger any kind of ban, because it's built into mouse, it doesn't have any software on PC at all.

only way to prevent wallhacks and external radars, is to change how game works.
reason why wallhack is possible, is because your game client is always aware of where all enemy players are and this is because server sends that data to every client, then game hack reads that data from game's memory and displays it on either external radar or on overlay that is on top of game.

if server would NOT send this data, then your game client would not be aware of the enemy player location and therefore you cant possibly make a wallhack as this data doesn't exist.
server is always aware of all player locations, so server would only send this data prior to before players can see eachother, otherwise enemy player should not "exist" for you.

cheaters would still have slight advantage as they'd be able to see enemies just slightly before they would appear, like they'd win peeking wars, but otherwise they wouldn't see them from great distances.
it would definetely help remove cheats where one player is able to see where entire enemy team is and then give info .. one cheater in team and give info to others aswell. i've seen it many times.
for example one player plays bad, but when suspected cheater is dead, then other players seem to have developed an ability to see thru walls aswell .. it's quite obvious that the cheater is giving them info.


NOTE to newbie players - footsteps are not only sounds you're able to hear. most players have bad headset or no sound, so they don't understand this, but you can hear other sounds aswell, such as reloading, when hostage is being taken (like sound that your clothes make when you shuffle them) and also hostage's breathing, its super quiet, but can be heard. in office i often camp around corner and listen for that breathing sound. even if enemy don't make footsteps, i can still hear the hostage's breathing.
you can also hear when someone uses scope's zoom or changes firemode on certain weapons.
if you do any of that around me, i'd instantly hear you and know your approximate location.
so not everyone who jumps at you and prefires is a cheater, i've been called a cheater many times aswell because i use those other sounds to pinpoint enemy location.


CS2 needs overwatch system, i think that was best thing in csgo. it really helped eliminate undetectable cheats from game. it was also relaxing to watch some matches.

While the idea of the server never sending player data sounds in good in practice it is a really horrible decision.

you would end up in the client having a severe lack of information to correctly perform interpolation,
How would the client know where an enemy is when you move around but the server has not gotten back to you?
how to do we play footsteps sounds from other players?
gunshots?
what happens when a client is having a bunch of delay?
etc
it would be a huge mess.

[fweaky]

Originally posted by Sethioz:

Originally posted by 匚卂丂卄ㄖㄩㄒ:

So as you guys all know, CS2 has a MASSIVE cheating problem. The thing a lot of you guys don't understand is that the anti-cheat is AI based now (no human revision unless manual ban) which means that the cheat will take a while to LEARN how cheaters play so that in the future it can detect cheaters as fast as possible. Things like this take TIME to train so you can't expect it to be banning people on its own overnight. The AI based anti-cheat should be really good in the future as more and more cheaters will be flooding the scene. which gives the anti-cheat more content to learn from. So instead of publicly executing cheaters, I know this sounds wild but, thanking them for making the game better instead. Without cheaters in the early stages of this games release, the anti-cheat fail to detect many more cheaters in the future. Hope you guys learned something from this!

that's not how anti-cheat works.
VAC scans game's memory for any code changes, that's how it detects cheats.

it doesn't detect external radars and wallhacks, because they don't make any changes to code. those can only be banned manually by blacklisting cheat's specific signature when its running, which means AC must be able to scan running processes, which could be intrusive in some cases and violate privacy laws in some countries.

i dont know if VAC has such feature, but some anti-cheats do scan for aiming patterns, which can be used to detect whetever player uses some kind of aim-assist or not, but in that case some gaming keyboards and mice have macro-software built-in, you cant ban someone for using a mouse or keyboard that has such feature. for example i used "bloody gun v3" mouse in csgo, it anti-recoil feature. that would never trigger any kind of ban, because it's built into mouse, it doesn't have any software on PC at all.

only way to prevent wallhacks and external radars, is to change how game works.
reason why wallhack is possible, is because your game client is always aware of where all enemy players are and this is because server sends that data to every client, then game hack reads that data from game's memory and displays it on either external radar or on overlay that is on top of game.

if server would NOT send this data, then your game client would not be aware of the enemy player location and therefore you cant possibly make a wallhack as this data doesn't exist.
server is always aware of all player locations, so server would only send this data prior to before players can see eachother, otherwise enemy player should not "exist" for you.

cheaters would still have slight advantage as they'd be able to see enemies just slightly before they would appear, like they'd win peeking wars, but otherwise they wouldn't see them from great distances.
it would definetely help remove cheats where one player is able to see where entire enemy team is and then give info .. one cheater in team and give info to others aswell. i've seen it many times.
for example one player plays bad, but when suspected cheater is dead, then other players seem to have developed an ability to see thru walls aswell .. it's quite obvious that the cheater is giving them info.


NOTE to newbie players - footsteps are not only sounds you're able to hear. most players have bad headset or no sound, so they don't understand this, but you can hear other sounds aswell, such as reloading, when hostage is being taken (like sound that your clothes make when you shuffle them) and also hostage's breathing, its super quiet, but can be heard. in office i often camp around corner and listen for that breathing sound. even if enemy don't make footsteps, i can still hear the hostage's breathing.
you can also hear when someone uses scope's zoom or changes firemode on certain weapons.
if you do any of that around me, i'd instantly hear you and know your approximate location.
so not everyone who jumps at you and prefires is a cheater, i've been called a cheater many times aswell because i use those other sounds to pinpoint enemy location.


CS2 needs overwatch system, i think that was best thing in csgo. it really helped eliminate undetectable cheats from game. it was also relaxing to watch some matches.

1. Thanks for taking time out of your day to explain that, that was really well put and I could understand it easily.
2. I think they should bring back some sort of Overwatch system but they should modify the threshold to account for the amount of cheaters we have in todays world. People that do Overwatch revisions don't necessarily have time to go through so many reports so maybe they should do something like "This play has (for ex.) 3 reports from different people across 3 or so different matches, we should really dig deep into this".
3. They should introduce a system that tells everyone that someone reported someone in the game for cheating as it would reduce the likelyhood of false reports as it practically publicly shames them for false reporting which will reduce the amount of reports that Overwatch system receives overall which will make it easier for people to ban the real cheaters instead of wasting time reviewing matches of "Silver Reported" "Cheaters". Silver players probably make up most of the reports anyway lol.
4. Valve could use AI to help Overwatch reviews to prioritise the real obvious cheaters rather than a random order of latest reports, they could filter out all the people that are either "legit cheating" because they aren't causing as much of a problem as the semi-rage or rage cheaters.

I am saying this assuming the old Overwatch system didn't have these already implemented but let me know if this could be a possibility or if this sounds like a complete fairytale lmao. I have quite a few ideas (as you can probably tell) of how to improve the old Overwatch system. AI shouldn't be done away with completely, it should be used to help humans to save time and be more efficient when it comes to banning cheaters. I don't think the game should have a FULL AI based anti-cheat at all as that leaves room for incredibly stupid errors.

[fweaky]

Originally posted by Renos:

Originally posted by Sethioz:

that's not how anti-cheat works.
VAC scans game's memory for any code changes, that's how it detects cheats.

it doesn't detect external radars and wallhacks, because they don't make any changes to code. those can only be banned manually by blacklisting cheat's specific signature when its running, which means AC must be able to scan running processes, which could be intrusive in some cases and violate privacy laws in some countries.

i dont know if VAC has such feature, but some anti-cheats do scan for aiming patterns, which can be used to detect whetever player uses some kind of aim-assist or not, but in that case some gaming keyboards and mice have macro-software built-in, you cant ban someone for using a mouse or keyboard that has such feature. for example i used "bloody gun v3" mouse in csgo, it anti-recoil feature. that would never trigger any kind of ban, because it's built into mouse, it doesn't have any software on PC at all.

only way to prevent wallhacks and external radars, is to change how game works.
reason why wallhack is possible, is because your game client is always aware of where all enemy players are and this is because server sends that data to every client, then game hack reads that data from game's memory and displays it on either external radar or on overlay that is on top of game.

if server would NOT send this data, then your game client would not be aware of the enemy player location and therefore you cant possibly make a wallhack as this data doesn't exist.
server is always aware of all player locations, so server would only send this data prior to before players can see eachother, otherwise enemy player should not "exist" for you.

cheaters would still have slight advantage as they'd be able to see enemies just slightly before they would appear, like they'd win peeking wars, but otherwise they wouldn't see them from great distances.
it would definetely help remove cheats where one player is able to see where entire enemy team is and then give info .. one cheater in team and give info to others aswell. i've seen it many times.
for example one player plays bad, but when suspected cheater is dead, then other players seem to have developed an ability to see thru walls aswell .. it's quite obvious that the cheater is giving them info.


NOTE to newbie players - footsteps are not only sounds you're able to hear. most players have bad headset or no sound, so they don't understand this, but you can hear other sounds aswell, such as reloading, when hostage is being taken (like sound that your clothes make when you shuffle them) and also hostage's breathing, its super quiet, but can be heard. in office i often camp around corner and listen for that breathing sound. even if enemy don't make footsteps, i can still hear the hostage's breathing.
you can also hear when someone uses scope's zoom or changes firemode on certain weapons.
if you do any of that around me, i'd instantly hear you and know your approximate location.
so not everyone who jumps at you and prefires is a cheater, i've been called a cheater many times aswell because i use those other sounds to pinpoint enemy location.


CS2 needs overwatch system, i think that was best thing in csgo. it really helped eliminate undetectable cheats from game. it was also relaxing to watch some matches.

While the idea of the server never sending player data sounds in good in practice it is a really horrible decision.

you would end up in the client having a severe lack of information to correctly perform interpolation,
How would the client know where an enemy is when you move around but the server has not gotten back to you?
how to do we play footsteps sounds from other players?
gunshots?
what happens when a client is having a bunch of delay?
etc
it would be a huge mess.

I completely agree with you but there are some points Sethioz made that make a lot of sense.

[ÐîGîTå£|Ãg€ñ†کmïth]

Just bring back fade to black and then see who really walling. The ones using Skype can tell where you are at if they are using skype. now if its faded to black and they die they cant see where you are at. There also should be team observation only in casual.

[OG]

CS2 will die before they fix anything .. they need to fire everyone including the CEO

[Ben Lubar]

Originally posted by Edward Brown:

CS2 will die before they fix anything .. they need to fire everyone including the CEO

I'm curious how you think game development works.

[BLoCKANDLOADED ⭕⃤]

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:

Originally posted by Edward Brown:

CS2 will die before they fix anything .. they need to fire everyone including the CEO

I'm curious how you think game development works.

That's why we need Kernel Level AC

[Playing Mantis Queen]

Why is there so much cheating? Umm maybe because there are tons of feds, fed provocateurs, fed informants, etc. which are all on the same side as the Steam devs. How hard is this to understand? lol

I keep seeing posts like this where the op has no clue why this stuff happens lol.

[𝓐мė𝗇𝗈]

u can write a book with all this comments

[cere]

Nah. If it's learning, it's not banning anyone yet.
I keep seeing "people" who use terrible aimbots that shake like crazy when they shoot.
Plugins like zblock from 14+ years ago would have detected these.
There's no reason they aren't instantly banned.