Hope in CS2 the ranking system gets a serious overtune

[Hamsterpeek]

Everyone who took his time investigating the ranking system already knows that personal performance doesn't matter for the rank. I also proved and explained that in my guide. But it's getting ridiclious at this point, haha.

I record all my games since 2019 and average 1.4 kd and 100 adr since then (any other stat is as high). My rank shifted between DMG-Supreme while carrying at least 9 out of 10 games in any way possible. Was really hard and slow to rank up.

But I barely played in the past months and my stats went downhill a lot:
https://csgostats.gg/player/76561198875387116?type=comp&date_start=1677625200&date_end=1682978399#/matches

From 1.4 kd to 1.08 on that acc. Keeping the rank, that's fine and as expected.

But what's ridiclious is is this, I had so play on another acc because I duo queued the past two days and that acc still had a rank (DMG) because the last game was 28 days ago and he had a rank so I had to play on that acc so we could play together) - and after that break and that I've no ambition nor energy to play that good my stats went down a lot:
https://csgostats.gg/player/76561199128434668?type=comp&date_start=1682373600&date_end=1682978399#/
0.86 kd, never had such bad performance in my entire life, played 4 matches, won 2, tied 2, ranked up twice from DMG to LEM.

My kd went down from 1.73:
https://csgostats.gg/player/76561199128434668?type=comp&date_start=1585692000&date_end=1680386399#/
to 1.57 just because of these 4 games lol.

https://csgostats.gg/player/76561199128434668#/

That's not the issue, but that I rank up twice in 4 games while getting carried so hard shows what an issue the ranking system has.

At the current state I don't deserve LEM, not LE, not DMG. lol.

[temper]

Damn

[Chiyoko]

Agreed.
Hope Vavle will change the current ranking system, so it will also include personal perfomance, and also people with different ranks will be able to play together without being forced to make a full team.

[-|Nur|-]

You're being silly. So out of four games you won two, tied two and your average placement was 3rd, and you think you should not have ranked up because you're not happy with your KD?

Your matchmaking rank measures your ability to win games. To the degree that your kills and deaths help your team win, your individual performance affects your rank.
Imagine the toxic incentives the system would create if it gave any thought to your KD.

[Chiyoko]

Originally posted by -|Nur|-:

You're being silly. So out of four games you won two, tied two and your average placement was 3rd, and you think you should not have ranked up because you're not happy with your KD?

Your matchmaking rank measures your ability to win games. To the degree that your kills and deaths help your team win, your individual performance affects your rank.
Imagine the toxic incentives the system would create if it gave any thought to your KD.

Personal perfomance barely affects your rank.
You can test it by yourself. You can be AFK and if your team win enough rounds you will rank up as much as them. They won't even rank up faster than you (considered they're the same rank as you).
The same if you're literally carrying your team all the time, you will never be promoted if you lose more rounds than win. Even if your team is AFK and you alone do 14-16 against 5 players.
This is the fault of the current ranking system, and this is how it is abused by smurfs.

It doesn't mean that the rank system should be based on personal perfomance, but the personal perfomance also should affect competitive ranks.

[DAWN OF THE DEAD]

i just hope will get another update on cs2 and they will add more trailers for rank system, vac + something else

[Hamsterpeek]

Originally posted by -|Nur|-:

You're being silly. So out of four games you won two, tied two and your average placement was 3rd, and you think you should not have ranked up because you're not happy with your KD?

Your matchmaking rank measures your ability to win games. To the degree that your kills and deaths help your team win, your individual performance affects your rank.
Imagine the toxic incentives the system would create if it gave any thought to your KD.

Personal performance doesn't matter.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2543503705

Originally posted by Rize:

Personal perfomance barely affects your rank.
You can test it by yourself. You can be AFK and if your team win enough rounds you will rank up as much as them. They won't even rank up faster than you (considered they're the same rank as you).
The same if you're literally carrying your team all the time, you will never be promoted if you lose more rounds than win. Even if your team is AFK and you alone do 14-16 against 5 players.
This is the fault of the current ranking system, and this is how it is abused by smurfs.

It doesn't mean that the rank system should be based on personal perfomance, but the personal perfomance also should affect competitive ranks.

Exactly. And that's the issue. I don't even want to write a lot more because it's all written in the guide. I've spend 100+ hours on that guide doing research, testing and writing it so I hope Nuri takes his time, reads throught it, sees the evidence and reconsider his opinion afterwards.

Also it's not just about KD as I mentioned @Nuri.
It's about general stats showing that you're a good player and helped your team. Clutchrate, entry rate, util dmg, kd, adr, ...
All these things matter.

I get 6 MVPs~ on average for 4-5 years and am the exact same rank as people who get 1 and have half as high other stats (again, kd, adr, clutch rate, ...).

Then I don't play with the same people and rank up - because - and I admit that - get carried. This is very rare and doesn't happen in MM as I said because skillwise I'm usually around faceit 3k elo which would be global 5 if that would exist lol. But after the break and other focus points it went downhill quite fast, which isn't the issue. Just stating that the current ranking system is absurdly silly. You carry 4 years in at least 90% of the games and barely reach LEM, then you play 4 games solo and reach LEM while barely doing anything productive for the team.

[oldirty`]

Ive had very good expirience ever since ranking was introduced but only when playing solo.
While personal performance barely affects rank I never had an issue with it, you still win more than you lose.
There is that idea that you lose 20% of your matches anyway. Another 20% are wins no matter what. The remaining 60% are what matter, if you are a good player you have way mor leverage turning these into wins and therefor personal performance is VERY important, just not win per win numbers.

The system breaks as soon as you mix too many people of vastly different skill levels. Which I suspect is true for most friend groups. If a global plays with a silver/gold nova alot the global player will lose like 5 ranks and the lower skilled player will gain five regardless of respective perfomrance.
Im not sure if a higher impact on performance per match would fix that.
Sure players probably remain closer to their true rank but I think this cost match quality.
My friends dont even want to play with me if I want to play my main account, they get demolished in a way which simply takes out the fun. If we keep our ranks every match will be like this.
But if they have to play a few ranks above them it gets just a little harder and for me it gets a little easier making the match itself quite fair. But I have trouble if I want to play solo and sit on dmg but want the tightness of global elite.

For me in both cases the only solution seems to be to have an extra account for playing with friends.

[Hamsterpeek]

Originally posted by oldirty`:

Ive had very good expirience ever since ranking was introduced but only when playing solo.
While personal performance barely affects rank I never had an issue with it, you still win more than you lose.
There is that idea that you lose 20% of your matches anyway. Another 20% are wins no matter what. The remaining 60% are what matter, if you are a good player you have way mor leverage turning these into wins and therefor personal performance is VERY important, just not win per win numbers.

The system breaks as soon as you mix too many people of vastly different skill levels. Which I suspect is true for most friend groups. If a global plays with a silver/gold nova alot the global player will lose like 5 ranks and the lower skilled player will gain five regardless of respective perfomrance.
Im not sure if a higher impact on performance per match would fix that.
Sure players probably remain closer to their true rank but I think this cost match quality.
My friends dont even want to play with me if I want to play my main account, they get demolished in a way which simply takes out the fun. If we keep our ranks every match will be like this.
But if they have to play a few ranks above them it gets just a little harder and for me it gets a little easier making the match itself quite fair. But I have trouble if I want to play solo and sit on dmg but want the tightness of global elite.

For me in both cases the only solution seems to be to have an extra account for playing with friends.

I know the theorie, jup. The people I play with usually are roughly the same rank, but the skill difference is very huge. That beeing said. It's quite common if you are higher ranked that when playing with lower ranked friends after a short time your friend will rank up and you will derank, even when you have 5+ times better stats. I did this multiple times. Started playing with silver/gn player while beeing LEM. They ended up beeing MG, I got MG aswell.

Why's that? Because winning rounds matters, but the rank of the enemies matters aswell. The thing is that you can get 50 frags as a LEM against Gold nova 4's but still lose when your silver friend only gets 3 frags. But he will barely lose points for that while you in the eyes of the system lost against Gold nova player. It does not take into account that you may won 14 rounds on your own with 14 mvps etc.

That's the issue. Personal performance should matter much, much more. It would not only balance the entire ranking system, because it's very obvious that there are plenty of well playing gold nova player who don't rank up because of reasons they've no power to change and at the same time plenty of very poorly skilled player are in high ranks.

This would also destroy the entire smurfing problem because a smurf would rank up quite fast.

Originally posted by WETEMUP:

That's your issue: instead of putting "countless hours into a guide" that only is based on your own confirmation bias you should work on getting better and being a better teammate

There isn't even any way to response to this, plain personal attacks and insults with no evidence - even worse, it's so bad that this is personal attack and serious accusation. You're just here to trashtalk.

Edit: He also had me on his block list, I know that because I can't post on his profile with this account, but other accounts. So obviously he has a personal judgement against me (while I never saw him post here).

Blocked + Reported.

[-|Nur|-]

Originally posted by Rize:

Originally posted by -|Nur|-:

You're being silly. So out of four games you won two, tied two and your average placement was 3rd, and you think you should not have ranked up because you're not happy with your KD?

Your matchmaking rank measures your ability to win games. To the degree that your kills and deaths help your team win, your individual performance affects your rank.
Imagine the toxic incentives the system would create if it gave any thought to your KD.

Personal perfomance barely affects your rank.

Read again what I said. If you perform well, your team is more likely to win, which yields rank points, ceteris paribus. Thus, your own performance has a heavy influence on your rank. That's why good players have high ranks and bad players have low ranks. The system does not need to pay any attention to your kills and deaths in any direct way.

[oldirty`]

Originally posted by Hamsterpeek:

It's quite common if you are higher ranked that when playing with lower ranked friends after a short time your friend will rank up and you will derank, even when you have 5+ times better stats. I did this multiple times. Started playing with silver/gn player while beeing LEM. They ended up beeing MG, I got MG aswell.

Exactly, this is quite logical when the personl performance means litte or nothing. You win and lose as a team therefor everyone gets roughly the same rank altough the skill difference withing the team can vary heavily.
For me this only causes an issue when I either play a long time solo and rank up to the point it makes no sense or even impossible to play with a friend or when play with friends for a long time and the nget broken matches when I play solo. Im kinda fine with it, I jut have to have 2 accounts.

I would like to propose an interesting question.

What is more important, the popflash or the kill?
The question seems impossible to me, there is no way to make it fair.

[GrizzGolf]

I really hope ranking is fixed next game. I really want to play with people my skill level and less smurf accounts

[Hamsterpeek]

Originally posted by oldirty`:

Originally posted by Hamsterpeek:

It's quite common if you are higher ranked that when playing with lower ranked friends after a short time your friend will rank up and you will derank, even when you have 5+ times better stats. I did this multiple times. Started playing with silver/gn player while beeing LEM. They ended up beeing MG, I got MG aswell.

Exactly, this is quite logical when the personl performance means litte or nothing. You win and lose as a team therefor everyone gets roughly the same rank altough the skill difference withing the team can vary heavily.
For me this only causes an issue when I either play a long time solo and rank up to the point it makes no sense or even impossible to play with a friend or when play with friends for a long time and the nget broken matches when I play solo. Im kinda fine with it, I jut have to have 2 accounts.

I would like to propose an interesting question.

What is more important, the popflash or the kill?
The question seems impossible to me, there is no way to make it fair.

You got it absolutely right. For this we need two accs. And this is an issue. A system where we only need one acc would be nice. If personal performance would matter more peopel would get/stay in the ranks where they should be even when you for example are global and queue with a silver friend. I really hope valve does this in CS2.

Towards your question: It is situational, but generally I'd say both is as important. And this should be included in the ranking system aswell. A popflash resulting in a frag while the enemy was blind should count as much as the kill itself. This sort of stuff is actually measurable, especially thanks to the "popflash" icon we have since some months/years now when someone dies.

[pratzen]

its so crazy, how hard ppl crying every day about the same thing, make me laugh somehow

[Mar]

No need to worry. It is expected to change in CS2. Rumor has it could be similar to the current Dota 2 matchmaking. I'd expect variable gain/loss MMR on matches to account for that.

[Hamsterpeek]

Originally posted by mzzzaN:

its so crazy, how hard ppl crying every day about the same thing, make me laugh somehow

Nobody is crying here. If you're not able to have a mature and intellectual conversation consider to spend your time otherwise.

Originally posted by Moa:

No need to worry. It is expected to change in CS2. Rumor has it could be similar to the current Dota 2 matchmaking. I'd expect variable gain/loss MMR on matches to account for that.

That sounds great. Do you have more details on how Dota 2 ranking system works? Because I never played it.