WHERE ARE THE SMART BOTS?

[Cosmo]

Indirectly solves the problems of cheaters.

[[deleted]]

you asked this already

what do you expect these "bots" to do?

[(banned)]

Apparently, Valve trained these "smart" bots on actual pro player behaviour.

Theres many reasons why they aren't implemented. One of them being: if the bots are truly good enough to match pro player skill, whats the point in matchmaking? Where can Valve make profits in advertising skins when a player dies? How does that help the Steam Market?

The entire CSGO macroeconomy, and Valve's revenue raising completely fails if computer bots are an adequate replacement to playing offline vs real human players. Its not cost effective then to work on thier behaviour, from a business sense. Surely working on AI behaviour can work with decent systems like Goal Oriented Action Planning, but from a pure business standpoint, its pointless.

Real player behaviour is the money spinner for CSGO, not catering to bot implementation and attempts to improve said "AI"

The days of Unreal and Quake 3, where AI was actively worked on, in tandem with multiplayer are long gone. Companies are investing ALL resources into the MP side. Any bot behaviour work is not cost effective and a decent ROI.

Thats it.

[(banned)]

Having access to the location of all the players on a map isn't how modern AI works and doesn't make it smart.

Modern AI methods don't need to know the location of a player at all times. As I said, there are many modern bot behaviour methods that make this redundant.

And yes, I said the concept is silly, because its not profitable. Quake 3 and as I said Unreal had decent AI systems, but commercially these days? Its pointless in a Live Service. All that matters for companies these days is how to "engage" consumers with battle passes, cosmetics, etc.

[(banned)]

...you are not making any sense.

[Mango]

Originally posted by Eld3r:

Originally posted by n00b:

Apparently, Valve trained these "smart" bots on actual pro player behaviour.

Theres many reasons why they aren't implemented. One of them being: if the bots are truly good enough to match pro player skill, whats the point in matchmaking? Where can Valve make profits in advertising skins when a player dies? How does that help the Steam Market?

The entire CSGO macroeconomy, and Valve's revenue raising completely fails if computer bots are an adequate replacement to playing offline vs real human players. Its not cost effective then to work on thier behaviour, from a business sense. Surely working on AI behaviour can work with decent systems like Goal Oriented Action Planning, but from a pure business standpoint, its pointless.

Real player behaviour is the money spinner for CSGO, not catering to bot implementation and attempts to improve said "AI"

why does a valve bot need to be "smart" when it would have access to the location of all players on a map?

this concept is silly imo

They can tool the A.I. to be competitive without being cheap. I believe Polyphony Digital (creators of gran turismo) are doing this. Sure they know the whole maps, what speed to hit the apex's and just the fine amount of braking, yet they configure A.I. to let players still have that fun factor. It's not a total rubberband like most racers, they dont completely leave you in the dust after perfecting all the corners. they simply are tuned to let the competing players have a fun competitive zone.

[Mango]

Originally posted by n00b:

Having access to the location of all the players on a map isn't how modern AI works and doesn't make it smart.

Modern AI methods don't need to know the location of a player at all times. As I said, there are many modern bot behaviour methods that make this redundant.

And yes, I said the concept is silly, because its not profitable. Quake 3 and as I said Unreal had decent AI systems, but commercially these days? Its pointless in a Live Service. All that matters for companies these days is how to "engage" consumers with battle passes, cosmetics, etc.

funny how most of this cosmetic crap all started with horse armor.

[(banned)]

Originally posted by Eld3r:

Originally posted by n00b:

...you are not making any sense.

my point is that ai is not needed for a valve bot since the bot could have access to all data about player

ai is not needed

Think carefully and logically, because saying AI isn't needed is a logically very very stupid assumption to make. Think of it from a game programmer's shoes:

How does a computer controlled player in a FPS game be controlled? Surely there needs to be some method to determine some way to move in a map? How does a CPU player move across a map? What actions does it take when it encounters a player at any given point? What actions would it need to undertake when evading a player's fire?

By your logic - if there is no AI: that means there is no pathfinding logic for the CPU player, it wouldn't have the first idea when it comes into contact with a player. It would mean simply that it would act like a spinbot and snap onto the first player it sees within the line of sight. Thats assuming of course it even moves: because it would need pathfinding logic to even move a distance, or if it would need a spline based track to follow. Most games use A* pathfinding to find a point to a location, and even that falls under some semblance of bot behaviour.

"Thinking" behaviour for game enemies have existed for an exceptionally long time. Even Wolf3D had thinker code for ingame enemies to execute to determine what happens when a player is encountered.

[(banned)]

Originally posted by Mango:

Originally posted by Eld3r:

why does a valve bot need to be "smart" when it would have access to the location of all players on a map?

this concept is silly imo

They can tool the A.I. to be competitive without being cheap. I believe Polyphony Digital (creators of gran turismo) are doing this. Sure they know the whole maps, what speed to hit the apex's and just the fine amount of braking, yet they configure A.I. to let players still have that fun factor. It's not a total rubberband like most racers, they dont completely leave you in the dust after perfecting all the corners. they simply are tuned to let the competing players have a fun competitive zone.

And that is where it becomes an artform in itself. Take for instance FEAR: The AI was designed in tandem with the map and sound designers to give the illusion of smart AI, while not being cheap.

AI coding is still quite an art to get right. Its nice indeed when developers at least try, like in Polyphony's case.

[Cosmo]

How do you like the idea of ​​rating matchmaking in a team in which there are only bots, but they have one living person (captain) as the main one, and as they win, the level of power of rival bots increases. The main thing is to solve the problem of cheaters. You can make a paid add-on "Smart bots". You can buy a uniform for your bot team on the marketplace.