Debunking the infamous "IP BAN does not work"

[76561198971462920]

So over the last few days I conduct an experiment by setting up a vanilla Windows 10 PC on one of our Fiber networks running a 1gigabit dsl line to this PC on a very basic "average gamer" type setup. No fancy networking stuff.

Being friends with an admin over at a well known non U.S. corporation, I created multiple accounts at their company and had my friend then ban that PC/Network from company servers.

Then I proceeded to change "IP" address in the same fashion as what is commonly spread around these forums.
But as everyone repeats here, Having the ISP connection on a dynamic IP, reboot modem, and sure enough got a different IP address. Ofcourse I did more than just change "IP" address.

But the "IP" ban did not budge.

So this "IP Ban" is keeping this particular setup out of the company server. A second PC on the same network then requires credential testing in order to be let on with limitations and about half an hour or so of jumping hoops including contacting first level support. (Which thankfully I did not need to do)

He is familiar with Steam as well and though I am not going to post any thing that may result in negative sentiment or offend anyone, but these bans do work even with common circum navigation techniques.

Even when trying to create a new account. It's not a permanent solution ofcourse, but it holds long enough to disrupt the activities of would be scammers, and ofcourse cheaters.

I can't paste certain logs here because they are against company policy, and obviously not going to share data on how this is done. Valve collects enough data through Steam to dish out permanent bans if they really wanted to on convicted USERS, not just accounts.

The only conclusion, I and my colleagues and have to regarding Valve's policy is that it is intentional. Just pointing out some findings made possible by those who understand how it all works, not meant to offend anyone who claims otherwise.

Ban evasion can certainly be handled by Steam / Valve if they really wanted to. Please don't be angry with me, I am not the one who lets scammers and cheaters run free through the network.

Thanks.

EDIT : Just to point out, I am not personally affected by Scamming or Cheating, but I realize the current System managed and run by Valve is quite inadequate for sustaining a healthy growth rate for Valve. There is also many competitors now, Valve is not the only big guy like it was before.

[Scrub]

So one hacker can shut down an entire gaming cafe? Is that what were aiming for?

The IP ban has more downsides than just "it's easy to get around".

[76561198971462920]

Publicado originalmente por doc:

So one hacker can shut down an entire gaming cafe? Is that what were aiming for?

The IP ban has more downsides than just "it's easy to get around".

Not exactly. It is not that simple lol :) but thank you for the concern.

Edit : I can go into details but that would be like reciting graduate physics in grade 5 class. "Gaming Cafe" PCs don't function the way you describe and neither does their licencing. That is just a fraction of the problem when you talk about 'hackers". The point is mitigation and prevention, not absolute solution. Like you can prevent catching a 'cold virus' but you can still catch it if you don't take precautions. You understand?

[king candy]

what happens if the user is on a network of routers with multiple ips would every ip under that network be banned or the ip of that router or what would happen then ? im thinking if when it comes to buildings with routers that is connected trough appartments where each appartment has 1 or 2 connectors for that specific router

would that entire network be banned or would the individual modem be banned ?

[B-o-B]

It doesn't or shouldn't matter to us.
Valve have a system currently, who knows what it is, but if you break that chain they don't have a system. Currently that system is fine.
When the system "isn't" fine, we see sweeping changes, large ones.
Why's this in CS:GO?

[76561198971462920]

Publicado originalmente por Happy Slaneshmas:

what happens if the user is on a network of routers with multiple ips would every ip under that network be banned or the ip of that router or what would happen then ? im thinking if when it comes to buildings with routers that is connected trough appartments where each appartment has 1 or 2 connectors for that specific router

would that entire network be banned or would the individual modem be banned ?

^ see my reply above.
Also it is amazing that only Steam users have these concerns. How far in the past is Steam? In most modern systems, these practices are already deployed significantly reducing problems for their customers from those who intend to harm productivity.

[king candy]

Publicado originalmente por ZrO:

Publicado originalmente por Happy Slaneshmas:

what happens if the user is on a network of routers with multiple ips would every ip under that network be banned or the ip of that router or what would happen then ? im thinking if when it comes to buildings with routers that is connected trough appartments where each appartment has 1 or 2 connectors for that specific router

would that entire network be banned or would the individual modem be banned ?

^ see my reply above.
Also it is amazing that only Steam users have these concerns. How far in the past is Steam? In most modern systems, these practices are already deployed significantly reducing problems for their customers from those who intend to harm productivity.

i mean i live in a large appartment building and just thought about what would happen if someone would be IP banned i thouhgt that we would share IP due to sharing the same router

[76561198971462920]

Publicado originalmente por 𐂃 𐂃:

It doesn't or shouldn't matter to us.
Valve have a system currently, who knows what it is, but if you break that chain they don't have a system. Currently that system is fine.
When the system "isn't" fine, we see sweeping changes, large ones.
Why's this in CS:GO?

Right, Valve can absolutely mitigate account abuses, scamming, cheating, much more than they are doing. The question is WHY they don't do it.

[Scrub]

The question then becomes: why wouldn't Valve do this?

They've had this problem for literally 2 decades. They've had some of the biggest multiplayer games ever made. They ban tens of thousands of accounts a month.

Why wouldn't they wish to reduce their moderation load? What aren't we being told about the difficulties or blocks behind something as simple as an IP ban?

There's no financial motivation to have NOT done this if it's as cut and dry as you lay it out.

[76561198971462920]

Publicado originalmente por doc:

The question then becomes: why wouldn't Valve do this?

They've had this problem for literally 2 decades. They've had some if the biggest multiplayer games ever made. They ban teens of thousands of accounts a month.

Why wouldn't they wish to reduce their moderation load? What aren't we being told about the difficulties or blocks behind something as simple as an IP ban?

You are right with your questions., and because it is not just a simple "IP" ban. But according to my good friend, this is the message they chose to deliver to the end user to allow them to contact support. Many other departments send more crypric messages, depending on the nature of the violation.

[Hamsterpeek]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_LPdttKXPc

This video alone answer you why ip bans don't work. And he doesn't even speak about macid.

And for someone who studied computer science and works in the it sector it's cringe to read those threads. You should really educate yourself how exactly data is send and received in the internet.

Just one single pro tipp: You didn't do anything in order to prevent getting banned on new accs. And at the same time accounts got banned who didn't do anything wrong. That alone are the two biggest main reasons why ip bans are ridiclious. That could work when every single human on earth only had one pc and one static ip(v6) and it wouldn't be possible to change it. But that is not the case.

[king candy]

Publicado originalmente por RaimaNd:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_LPdttKXPc

This video alone answer you why ip bans don't work. And he doesn't even speak about macid.

And for someone who studied computer science and works in the it sector it's cringe to read those threads. You should really educate yourself how exactly data is send and received in the internet.

Just one single pro tipp: You didn't do anything in order to prevent getting banned on new accs. And at the same time accounts got banned who didn't do anything wrong. That alone are the two biggest main reasons why ip bans are ridiclious. That could work when every single human on earth only had one pc and one static ip(v6) and it wouldn't be possible to change it. But that is not the case.

that was my concern with this bs

[.red <3]

Publicado originalmente por doc:

So one hacker can shut down an entire gaming cafe? Is that what were aiming for?

The IP ban has more downsides than just "it's easy to get around".

- mac ban
- ingame steam level filter (nice against throw away accounts and smurfs)
- trust factor based on more than just reports / Security Level by sharing personal data like credit card informations etc.
- enhanced overwatch (seing mousespeed, if a button was pressed and the crosshair movement, concept for that is out now for more than a year)
(- a strike system instead of vac for profiles older than x years.
The way it is right now you push the community into low level throw away accounts and giving away users to epics launcher.)

Finding the balance between keeping the community cheater free and sell games on the same plattform might be tricky in the future for all plattforms.

[Eno]

I've been blocked from some community servers when my IP switched to the same as a cheater used to have. They're just not a good idea.

[Sin]

ok boomer

[simon]

Publicado originalmente por ZrO:

Snip.

They dont work well and can be got around. Also, Steam could have legal issues if the PC is used by different people in the same house hold. Why should every one in the same house be banned because one person cheated? I.P addreses are also recycled so its possible for one to be assigned to a new user who would get the ban for doing nothing. Do you think in all this time no-body at Valve has not already thought of every thing you can come up with?

https://www.iplocation.net/ip-ban

Publicado originalmente por ZrO:

Like you can prevent catching a 'cold virus' but you can still catch it if you don't take precautions. You understand?

You cant in any way prevent catching a cold other than never leaving your home or meeting another human. There is no prevention available (medical or other wise) other than not exposing yourself to the virus in the firsts place which is impossible in every day life.