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hmmm, i mean, i was considering starting a new topic to explain how underrated the bowie is, but then i remembered this thread, in my case, the last time i posted was a year ago so i only needed to remember one year back
my memory in general is poor, however, cs skins seem to be an exception, anything related to cs skins gets filed in a higher priority location in my brain for some reason
same, i could talk about skins for hours, hey speaking of bowie knives though, where would you rank it out of the 20 knives in cs (default knives not included)
i'm also curious to know where you rank the butterfly and the skeleton (since you have those two)
Low tier: navaja, gut, shadow daggers.
Mid tier: falchion, huntsman, bowie, flip, ursus, survival, talon, stiletto, nomad, paracord, bayonet, classic, kukri.
High tier: M9, karambit, butterfly, skeleton.
I made this classification by collecting player's opinions and my experience in market demand of these knives.
If we talking about bowie, i place it on 7th place of 13 of mid tier knives.
My personal top of mid tier knives.
1. Kukri - it should be a big knife, but in-game its a little blade, something wrong with it.
2. Talon - cheap copy if karambit. Good analogue if you have not big budget for kara.
3. Paracord -
4. Ursus -
5. Nomad - these four places (3-5 and 8) have good animations but not pretty models.
6. Huntsman - pretty model, but very simple animations.
7. Bowie - big minus is one hand. If you have gloves - you lost a half of playside of your gloves. But i agree with you about animations.
8. Survival -
9. Classic - boring, just for old players who feels nostalgia about 1.6
10. Falchion - ugly model, but rare animation which save this knife from last place of this top.
11. Flip -
12. Stiletto - these two (11,12) are a similar knives, pretty models, but not interesting animations.
13. Bayonet - broken animation of swipe, not pretty model.
Wanna see your top of knives.
hmmm so you place the bowie as 7th out of the mid tier 13, which means 11th overall out of the full list of 20... so almost exactly in the middle, it makes sense then why you made this topic in the first place, because if the bowie is mid of mid for you, then you'd at least expect to see it occasionally since mid of mid should theoretically be a decent budget choice
thank you for the comprehensive list, i liked that
as for me, i have a highly prejudiced list that many would find very questionable... but i'll list my reasons...
from best to worst:
#1 & #2: Bowie tied with M9 taking the top two spots together, i've already talked about the bowie so i'll explain why M9 is also top position: M9 has the overall best knife model AND the best draw animation (out of the draw animations that don't have rare draw animations)
#3 Karambit: loses to M9 and Bowie because the Karambit is held on the right side of the hand, so it's towards the corner of the screen, and that makes it less visible in game since your focus is generally in the middle of the screen
#4 Butterfly: honestly, i actually hate when knives have rare animations because the random nature of rare animations makes it feel as though i'm not in control of what my character is doing, but despite that, the butterfly still makes it to 4th spot because it has the best draw animation in the entire game (unfortunately it's the rare draw animation), it also has the best back stab animation in the game, as well as the best inspect animation (again, unfortunately it's second rare inspect animation out of 3 inspect animations) it's so frustrating for me because i ALWAYS want to see my favorite draw AND inspect combined, the butterfly is easily the most satisfying AND the most frustrating knife at the same time for me
#5 bayonet: one of the sickest draw animations in the game
#6 talon: budget karambit
#7 Kukri: i'm liking it so far from what i've seen of it
#8 shadow daggers: i like the draw animation into inspect animation for these
good/great knives that i personally can't use:
Ursus, Survival, Skeleton, Paracord: these were so close to becoming S tier for me, especially the skeleton and survival... but all four of these have default main draw animations and cool rare draw animations, i just can't handle the default draw animations, if the rare draw animation was the standard and only draw animation, then all 4 of these would be S tier or at least A tier
knives i really don't like:
gut & huntsman: i hate the draw animation for these two, as you know, both have the same draw animation, which is a 720 spin... that's way too unrealistic of an animation that can be pulled off consistently if at all, a 360 spin is doable, but 720 is just unreasonable even if it looks cool, it's beyond unrealistic and that's a massive negative for me
below is a list of knives i simply can't use:
Navaja, Falchion, Flip, Stiletto, Nomad (these are all flip knives, i can't use them because they don't make sense... think about it, you flip it out of the handle during the draw animation, so it's in full fold out position, then if you do the draw animation again, it's immediately back in folded position being flipped out again, it's not possible because it requires both hands to fold back into the handle (the butterfly is also a flip knife, but unlike the above 5 knives, the butterfly can be folded back with only one hand and in a split second too, so it doesn't commit the sin that these 5 knives do)
another knife i can't use is the classic: it just does way too much idle movements, i personally don't like that because it makes it feels as though i'm not in full control of what my character is doing
EDIT: you listed M9, karambit, butterfly, skeleton. in your high tier group, but can you also tell me the order in which you rank them?
My top of high tier knives is:
1. Butterfly - i cant even argue about that. Bfk is the best imo in all my criterions: interesting animations, ability to making combo animation by pressing F-R, model view, exclusive sounds of this knife. This knife is like a luxury jewelry - not for using, just for looking. You won't get bored after long time of owning this knife.
2. Karambit - pretty model view, interesting animations, ability to spam F-R. This knife good choice for people like you who doesnt like random animation and the same time who wants to play with pretty model of knife with pleasant animations. Nothing extra.
3. Skeleton - this knife deserves his 3rd place for his nice view model and ability to spin on a finger like a spinner (hold F and enjoy this helicopter on your hand). It could be 2nd place, but his swipe animation is very simple (exclude rare animation bcus its rare). This knife for amateurs i guess, not everyone value this knife like me.
4. M9 - his advantage is model only. This knife could be a good choice for people which like minimalistic in all, but m9 makes you bored too fast.
And people think this game has any hope LOL
you're right, we're fundamentally different when it comes to how we view the presence of rare animations... you see them as a positive, i see them as a negative
for you, it adds variety, excitement, novelty, and ultimately longevity, i can understand and respect that reasoning
but for me, it adds uncertainty, lack of control, frustration at not seeing my preferred animations, and ultimately, it leaves me feeling disconnected from the agent i'm controlling
i love randomization and unpredictability in games, but only when that randomization is a factor outside the character i'm controlling, i want and need the things my own character does to be precise and fully predictable and of my own choosing
it's just a matter of preferences at the end of the day so neither of us are right or wrong, but it's interesting how different people can view the same thing in two completely different ways
both gloves/hands are fully visible when you switch to gun, so even with the bowie, you'll constantly be switching back and forth from bowie to gun all throughout the matches so you'll be seeing plenty of the left hand every few seconds
also, check this out:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3226891906
i feel that the devs made the right call, the angle and direction of the blade, in combination with its length would make it feel as though the left hand is dangerously close to getting cut on a constant basis due to the inspect
conceptually, the missing left hand seems frustrating, and if you only view videos of people just walking around with the bowie held out, it looks goofy, but in game, you'll constantly be switching back and forth from bowie to gun, and while you have the bowie out, you'll be spamming animations, so you'll never actually just run around with the bowie held out for long, this, and the reasons above are why i completely changed my mind on the ranking of the bowie
it's the single most underrated knife in cs, if you test it on a knife only server and are only looking at the knife, then yes, the missing left hand feels lacking, heck, even i myself wrote this about the bowie just one year ago "bowie is the one and only only knife in csgo i never want to use again"
but after giving it some regular use in game, i realized that you see the left hand/glove a lot during actual gameplay because of the constant switching to gun, and also the inspect blade direction and length looks like it's going to slice whatever is present on the left side of the screen so it's actually relieving that the left hand is absent while the bowie is out
when people are considering getting a knife, they will usually watch knife only gameplay in deathmatch, or knife only animation videos, and in that scenario, yes, the missing left hand is very noticeable, but again, in actual game, you'll be switching back and forth to guns, so the left hand keeps coming out and is seen every few seconds and doesn't feel like it's COMPLETELY absent the way it does in knife only videos
there's a reason the devs removed the left hand, and there's a reason they've kept it removed even after years of people complaining
think about it, the original design must have included the left hand, like every other knife in cs, but they deliberately removed it after seeing how it looked in relation to the bowie animations and a team of people working at valve judged it to be better with the left hand missing, and for the longest time, i agreed with everyone else that it was a mistake, it's only now that i see that valve made the right choice
the bowie is like the food item on the menu that has an off putting name, weird ingredients, and a weird menu photo, but if you give it a chance, it's one of the most satisfying things ever
EDIT: sorry for the super long rant, but i'm done now, that's my full case for the bowie
I would to agree with your assumption, BUT in all knives inspect animations your character hides his left hand while inspecting a knife in right hand. No needs to remove left hand in that case, anyway this hand will be hidden in inspect view and nothing in danger to be cut.
Np, your long comment didnt make me tired, it was really interesting to read. Thanks for your feedback.