We need a change..

[lukey]

Ive played counter strike for 11-12 years starting from 1.6 when my dad had it and i would hop on and play on his account. Now today, im 16 and i have over 2500 hours on csgo and im getting more drawn away from it.

GO is a big difference from css and 1.6 and the reason being that theres not as much skill necessary and you cant do as much. Recently after being frustarted with GO (which happens with all of us...Alot) i decided to play some 1.6 and css pugs to go back and gain the nostalgic feeling i once had and maybe even develop myself much more as a player then i am now.

When playing 1.6 an easy notice and change was communtiy servers. With the communitys servers versus MM and Casual and etc that we have today, the skill level you can find is completely different. Theres not a very big challenge to others, and a great example of that would be silver match making. When playing silver match making you can be playing with someone whos half your age or just garbage at the game. Why does that matter? Because with that youre not able to really challenge your self and become a better player and learn. Where as in 1.6 or css you can join a pug and what skill level youre going against is a gamble. With this, you can learn, watch other players, learn from your mistakes and become the person destroying everyone.

Another easy example, (and i hate to say it) is skins. This isnt a popular opinion so ill gently breeze over it. Skins have have changed the mindset of many players and the game by a mile and a half. Lots of people just want skins and we've hear "skins=wins" which is funny but its an actual mindset which is sad. With this mindset others have, people that make the game and update it take advantage of it and instead of making the game better instead they decide to add gloves and new knives and stuff. This is very frustraiting, not only to me but to people at the top and people who want to be the best who have put countless hours into this game and done what they can to become one of the best. Its like they dont listen. As Nick Bunnyun (idk if i spet it right) once said "Bug updates or fixes wont bring you money but what it will bring you is happy players and happy players stick around."

I just wish i could get the same feeling and minset gained in csgo that i get in 1.6 and css but i dont. I wish this was fixed and possible. If i think of other things then i will definitly list them because there is alot. Do you guys know any? Whats your thoughts?

[oldirty`]

Csgo requiers much much more skill than 1.6 or css, those were both luck games compared to csgo.

[RaimaNd]

The biggest problem I've with 1.6 is the movement. When you were a movement god back in 1.6 you could outmove so many player. In csgo this isn't the case. The best person where you can actually see it is the best 1.6 player ever: neo. Yes. neo. The underdog guy who plays for virtus pro.
https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/NEO

and is one of the greatest Counter-Strike 1.6 players of all time

When you watch demos or clips from him it's just insane how he moves around the map and has still the normal professional playstyle.
This is a good list and the last of a 5 part video, watch at 9:58 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTu1ODceGn4


To the community server thing:
We still have all that. We've still third party websites. And we still have community server. Not sure about surf- and kz maps tho. They were great in 1.6 and source.

To the skins:
They're not important at all. Who likes it, likes it, who not, not. It doesn't change the game at any point.

People I play with still don't care about skins, even when some of them have x-k inventories with dragon lores and stuff. We play, that's all what matters.

I'd like to see the cs1.6 bhop in csgo and I'd like to see a better airstrafe setting so you can strafe harder. Spraypattern, hitboxes and too many noisy sounds from the world/map are also something to talk about.

What I like in csgo is the utility usage. It's nice that there are so many ways to play with utility, way more than it was in 1.6. In 1.6 you could actually see through smokes. And smoke lineups didn't really exist.

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by oldirty`:

Csgo requiers much much more skill than 1.6 or css, those were both luck games compared to csgo.

Theres been luck in every CS, something that makes no sense to this day is first bullet inaccuracy, how can a game call itself skill based when i can aim perfectly while not moving and still miss, they should give the buy round rifles 100% first bullet accuracy.

If i remember rightly CS1.6 didnt have spray patterns as sefined as CSGO, in 1.6 there was like 10 patterns for the M4 that all had little variations so i guess you really couldnt spray as reliably, wich is actually more realistic, tapping in CSGO should be buffed.

[Fawaz]

We need to adapt that's all.

[RaimaNd]

Originally posted by paco:

We need to adapt that's all.

That's not easy for old mans like me.

Originally posted by oldirty`:

Csgo requiers much much more skill than 1.6 or css, those were both luck games compared to csgo.

Yes and no. In terms of movement cs1.6 and css was harder. In terms of spraypattern csgo is more skillbased, right. In terms of first bullet accuracy I hate csgo because even awp shots miss because of that... and that's insane.

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by RaimaNd:

Originally posted by paco:

We need to adapt that's all.

That's not easy for old mans like me.

Originally posted by oldirty`:

Csgo requiers much much more skill than 1.6 or css, those were both luck games compared to csgo.

Yes and no. In terms of movement cs1.6 and css was harder. In terms of spraypattern csgo is more skillbased, right. In terms of first bullet accuracy I hate csgo because even awp shots miss because of that... and that's insane.

Both CS1.6 and CSGO have first shot inaccuracy infact CS1.6 has marginally more, like maybe a few percent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyvTH_6gLUo

[RaimaNd]

Originally posted by Sir Det Mist:

Originally posted by RaimaNd:

That's not easy for old mans like me.

Yes and no. In terms of movement cs1.6 and css was harder. In terms of spraypattern csgo is more skillbased, right. In terms of first bullet accuracy I hate csgo because even awp shots miss because of that... and that's insane.

Both CS1.6 and CSGO hava first shot inaccuracy infact CS1.6 has marginally more, like maybe a few percent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyvTH_6gLUo

I know, hitreg, hitboxes, first bullet accuracy and stuff wasn't great in 1.6. That's why I spoke specific about the awp. In 1.6 the awp was pixel perfect with every shot, now you can miss on mid range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2zAcfWqWgQ

Watch at 22:17 - 22:39
Those shots are dead on. And that's why they hit.

A bad first bullet accuracy is never good. It does make sens on some weapons obviously. But especially rifles and even more - sniper rifles - shouldn't have any first bullet accuracy. The less spread we've, the more skill is required for a hit and the higher it's rewarded for having really good aim.

You know when I'm getting kinda mad and angry the most? When I 100% know that I didn't hit, I know it! And I do a headshot. I hate that. Whenever I do that I say loud "no, never, that wasn't a hit at all!" but just because of the first bullet accuracy my - in that case - bad aim was rewarded with a headshot, and that's bad.

[oldirty`]

Originally posted by RaimaNd:

Yes and no. In terms of movement cs1.6 and css was harder.

Hm I wouldnt say harder, there was simply more possible and because of that the skill ceiling in terms of movement was higher, way higher actually, thats true.

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by RaimaNd:

Originally posted by Sir Det Mist:

Both CS1.6 and CSGO hava first shot inaccuracy infact CS1.6 has marginally more, like maybe a few percent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyvTH_6gLUo

I know, hitreg, hitboxes, first bullet accuracy and stuff wasn't great in 1.6. That's why I spoke specific about the awp. In 1.6 the awp was pixel perfect with every shot, now you can miss on mid range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2zAcfWqWgQ

Watch at 22:17 - 22:39
Those shots are dead on. And that's why they hit.

First bullet accuracy is never good. It does make sens on some weapons obviously. But especially rifles and even more - sniper rifles - shouldn't have any first bullet accuracy. The less spread we've, the more skill is required for a hit and the higher it's rewarded for having really good aim.

You know when I'm getting kinda mad and angry the most? When I 100% know that I didn't hit, I know it! And I do a headshot. I hate that. Whenever I do that I say loud "no, never, that wasn't a hit at all!" but just because of the first bullet accuracy my - in that case - bad aim was rewarded with a headshot, and that's bad.

Are you sure thats not just that magic bullet bug that CS1.6 had, i dont know how that worked i think its like reloading and quick switching or something, or was it actually 100% accurate.

[RaimaNd]

Originally posted by oldirty`:

Originally posted by RaimaNd:

Yes and no. In terms of movement cs1.6 and css was harder.

Hm I wouldnt say harder, there was simply more possible and because of that the skill ceiling in terms of movement was higher, way higher actually, thats true.

Yeah that's what I mean. :)

[RaimaNd]

Originally posted by Sir Det Mist:

Originally posted by RaimaNd:

I know, hitreg, hitboxes, first bullet accuracy and stuff wasn't great in 1.6. That's why I spoke specific about the awp. In 1.6 the awp was pixel perfect with every shot, now you can miss on mid range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2zAcfWqWgQ

Watch at 22:17 - 22:39
Those shots are dead on. And that's why they hit.

First bullet accuracy is never good. It does make sens on some weapons obviously. But especially rifles and even more - sniper rifles - shouldn't have any first bullet accuracy. The less spread we've, the more skill is required for a hit and the higher it's rewarded for having really good aim.

You know when I'm getting kinda mad and angry the most? When I 100% know that I didn't hit, I know it! And I do a headshot. I hate that. Whenever I do that I say loud "no, never, that wasn't a hit at all!" but just because of the first bullet accuracy my - in that case - bad aim was rewarded with a headshot, and that's bad.

Are you sure thats not just that magic bullet bug that CS1.6 had, i dont know how that worked i think its like reloading and quick switching or something, or was it actually 100% accurate.

It existed with the ak, but not awp. There were two extraordinary playstyles with the awp. Looked like this:
1. When you wanna fire without scope, you could do a quickscope, you just had to press right mouse buttom directly before your press the left one. With that you made a quickscope (sometimes you didn't even scope in) and the shot was perfect where it lands when scoping.
2. When you shot your first shot with either quickscope (see 1.) or with a normal scoped shot and press left mouse buttom down the whole time, all shots after that landed perfectly in the center - like it is when scoped.

This is a perfect example of how booth playstyles could be combined:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1565838261
And it was obviously legal too, the clip from this gif was back in 2006, a game in the esl, it was a mr12 top 10 game as far as I remember.

The first shot is playstyle 1 - quickscope, booth, the second and third kill the the 2. playstyle. I was one, if not the first player who used it in competitive leagues and I called it "aimshot".

This one here is even a more crazy example:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1281293128
Booth kills I did there were playstyle 1. And I hit the right + left mousebuttom that fast that I didn't zoom in booth kills at all. Booth shots were 100% accurate, 100% skill, no luck (ok, obviously killing one through the wall is luck, but I was on him behind the wall, I think you know what I mean).

[Vuzee]

hi

[Bodhi_Bag]

What i feel is worse than in all of the cs titles i've played (and i play since steam wasn't a thing). Is that with the Matchmaking came more toxic behavior (not excluding me at times,but mostly angry at myself). The community is more divided than it was without MM. You would just pick a server where you liked the people and favorited that, Admins where around to sort out the not so friendly people and all had chill times.
Today i feel it's just people boosting their egos, playing the game like they are on some big esl stage... new players have more problems finding the game fun, because of harrassment.
Silvers yelling at silvers.. Smurfs dropping 30 bombs in a rank they don't belong and leave people who like the game for what it is in agony.

I know people who need to give themselves prep talks before queueing up...
like literal prep talks...
and thats where i draw the line.
There is a difference between banter and competetiveness and straight up harrassment just for the sake of making people feel bad.

i know i sound like some grandpa but overall it's just a big SMH...

But maybe i'm to old for that jazz... maybe thats the new hip and cool thing? what ever it is.. i don't get it. lmao. You sure as hell won't see me in match making.

I love cs go but it's just a pain to watch it go down the drain like that.

[p0mpous]

I think one of the reason movement was probably more important in CS1.6 is the fact that spraying was worse and from the small amount ive played in 1.6 tagging also seems to be less effective in CS1.6 meaning its more effective to move stop shot, move stop shoot and repeat whereas in CS the most effective ways to kill people basically always involve spraying, it doesnt matter if you are crouching, standing, or adad spamming you can spray and be more effective, bursting and moving or tapping and moving doenst really work even for the highest of skill levels, even the best of the best cant tap people consistently enough justify using it as a main means of getting kills, it makes more sense to be still and spray.

[RaimaNd]

Originally posted by Sir Det Mist:

I think one of the reason movement was probably more important in CS1.6 is the fact that spraying was worse and from the small amount ive played in 1.6 tagging also seems to be less effective in CS1.6 meaning its more effective to move stop shot, move stop shoot and repeat whereas in CS the most effective ways to kill people basically always involve spraying, it doesnt matter if you are crouching, standing, or adad spamming you can spray and be more effective, bursting and moving or tapping and moving doenst really work even for the highest of skill levels, even the best of the best cant tap people consistently enough justify using it as a main means of getting kills, it makes more sense to be still and spray.

This is the reason why movement was - not more important, but - had a way higher skillcap.
Most csgo player don't even notice what he do in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khUiaTLALMA