rank Difference between free to play and prime?

[6f7665]

Hi, I've been GNM and I know the developers don't give nothing about what is written on this forum but just hear me out OK?

So, in every other silver game I get 30+ kills trying to rank up to gold nova that I was before (topfragging obviously). Somehow lost my rank due to playing with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hardware, taking breaks from cs:go and so on.

However I begin to think that there is a huge difference in skill between free to play players and the old prime players, so the thing is that in silver it's really a cointoss if you win or not, even tho you get 30-40 kills per game and play the objective mainly you will still not be able to win certain games if you have 3 f2p players on your team that recently got prime vs 5 prime players on the other team.

I can imagine this difference is even bigger in other ranks such as gold nova where prime players that would be far superior than f2p is literally getting randomly mixed in the teams.

That beeing said I think there is a huge skill difference between prime and non prime, literally lightyears apart, a prime silver 3 player should roughly get GNM in non prime and vise versa, thus meaning a person that is ranked GNM in non prime is still a noob because he just ranks avarage against other noobs therefor he will most likely and probably rather quickly, rank down to silver tier ranks.

I think the CS:GO devs needs to separate the ranking systems so it's more fair for f2p players when they finally grind to prime, therefor new prime players will have to do the placement matches again when they start playing prime matchmaking, otherwise it's just a cointoss if you play with f2p players or if you get experienced people on your team and the enemy team

Or alternatively the ranks should be syncronized by "f2p vs prime" games where every person on both teams gets overwatch investigated. thus clearing up the huge rank differential. Those games should boost the elo of the entire prime community in such a way that when a prime player plays a match next time after syncronized ranks he should instantly rank up two ranks and vise versa, if there is such a big difference the f2p players should instantly derank 2 ranks or even 3 ranks if it's such a big difference as I beleive it to be.

That would mean if you have 5 non prime f2p players on one team the other ones with the same rank from prime battle against them unknowingly, afterwards everyone on both teams are overwatch investigated and the ranks are adjusted accordingly if they are all clear from the 4 overwatch bannable rule offenses.

And you might think, hey just play with friends then you only have good prime players in your team, and hey, you are absolutely right, but friends don't always play at the same time as me and secondly you will still have very one sided games, if you go up against 5 prime players it will be somewhat of a challenge and if you go up against free to play players it will most likely be one of those games where you ace the enemy team with zues only, yes, maybe I'm over exarrogating but seriously, it will be a very easy game.

What do you think?, should the f2p ranks be synced with the prime ranks for a better experience when f2p players get prime?

[Yaro]

THE SALT OOOF well first of all you cant compare skill with f2p. skill comes with the player not the status if he was prime or not

[6f7665]

Originally posted by FK_Bauer:

This doesn't make any sense. Having the loyalty badge doesn't mean that you're a better player than someone that started csgo post 6th of December 2018. Yes, they have owned and probably played csgo for a longer time, but it doesn't make them instantly better.

Your logic on non-primers/f2p primers at Gold Nova Meister being the loyalty badge prime equivalent of a Silver 3 makes no sense. The ranks are already "synced" Both matchmaking methods use the same system.

It's not about the prime/non-prime status, every player is an individual with a different skill set, your just being delusional here.

actually speaking from my own experience I see players in silver that doesn't really know how to scope with an awp let alone move around properly and I see players in my rank that are on par with me, a former GNM player or even above that rank, people that know how to take angles, know how to position themselves, smoke different places and so on.

And the only difference between those players is that the ones with skills they usually have a loyalty badge and those without any skill are usually just level 26, without a service medal and idling in the bottom of the scoreboard with 2-6 kills the entire game, racking up above 20 deaths if there even is that many rounds.

To me it's somehow just a cointoss if you get prime players on your team or f2p players. Altough I'm still ranking up slowly but it's just utterly insane why csgo decides to put f2p players against experienced silvers, just derank the f2p players and push up some prime silvers to nova, matches would be so much fairer for everyone

As an added bonus some people with hours under the belt will then have access to ovewatch and help the community to clean up the competitive scene against the puny script kiddos

[6f7665]

Originally posted by kira yoshikage:

THE SALT OOOF well first of all you cant compare skill with f2p. skill comes with the player not the status if he was prime or not

I guess if you punch in the pile the ones that got hit will scream?, and you seem to be very salty yourself...

[Wyrm]

Originally posted by kira yoshikage:

THE SALT OOOF well first of all you cant compare skill with f2p. skill comes with the player not the status if he was prime or not

How old can you be to be making such a comment

[BusterMcnutty]

Originally posted by FK_Bauer:

This doesn't make any sense. Having the loyalty badge doesn't mean that you're a better player than someone that started csgo post 6th of December 2018. Yes, they have owned and probably played csgo for a longer time, but it doesn't make them instantly better.

Your logic on non-primers/f2p primers at Gold Nova Meister being the loyalty badge prime equivalent of a Silver 3 makes no sense. The ranks are already "synced" Both matchmaking methods use the same system.

It's not about the prime/non-prime status, every player is an individual with a different skill set, your just being delusional here.

i see what your saying and I agree that a f2p Silver Elite Is probably a GN 2-3 if he was in prime. But, i only say this , because of the fact that in non prime youll like be facing alot of cheaters , no matter the level nor the rank. So , if you can actually play those games out and dont just throw because they are destroying you, then theoretically you could be a bettter player because of it. But thats all a theory ,lol who actually knows

[Fayy]

Congratz, you were gnm, times change and you do well in silver lobbies? not exactly an achievement but at the end of the day, everyone starts somewhere, hell, i started at SE and worked my way up to LEM Solo queue with bad team mates and overall not a good experience, but honestly its csgo, you just have to put up with people that cant play, because the more you play the better you get, and the better you get, the easier it is to get out of silver

[6f7665]

Originally posted by FK_Bauer:

Originally posted by -oVe-:

actually speaking from my own experience I see players in silver that doesn't really know how to scope with an awp let alone move around properly and I see players in my rank that are on par with me, a former GNM player or even above that rank, people that know how to take angles, know how to position themselves, smoke different places and so on.

And the only difference between those players is that the ones with skills they usually have a loyalty badge and those without any skill are usually just level 26, without a service medal and idling in the bottom of the scoreboard with 2-6 kills the entire game, racking up above 20 deaths if there even is that many rounds.

To me it's somehow just a cointoss if you get prime players on your team or f2p players. Altough I'm still ranking up slowly but it's just utterly insane why csgo decides to put f2p players against experienced silvers, just derank the f2p players and push up some prime silvers to nova, matches would be so much fairer for everyone

As an added bonus some people with hours under the belt will then have access to ovewatch and help the community to clean up the competitive scene against the puny script kiddos

But the differences on the player you play with are not related at all on the fact whether they have played post Dec 6th or prior to that

There actually is a difference in lower ranks, a silver 1-3 with 1000h is obviously going to outperform a silver 1-3 with 300 hours

It simply comes down to the cheer brute force fragging potential. While a 1k+h player may be silver for various reasons it's far more likely it's because of 3 reasons other than actual skill deficiency

1# low rank due to inactivity
2# low rank due to toxicity/temperamental issues.
3# lack of computation power (playing on potato laptop)

4#(f2p) lack of skill

While number 1-3 is the most common reason why a 1k+h person is silver the 4th reason is almost exclusively the only reason why most f2p players are silver.

Reasons 1-2 doesn't have any detrimental effect on a persons fragging ability thus making prime player far superior to f2p players in those ranks.

Reason number 3 can have a detrimental effect on fragging capability but not necessarily while number 4 is putting the team at a massive disadvantage due to severely impaired aiming capability of the player. I know this sounds harsh but f2p player cannot, based on my experience of playing 15 games with them the last week, seem to shoot enemies even from behind when the opportunity is presented to them

This does of course not apply to all f2p players and all prime player but there is a big correlation and it is very prominent factor as to why games in those ranks are literally cointosses.

[reg1s7]

What you say is basically right. I played with non-prime friends, and I can confirm that prime and non-prime skills are different. Silver Elite in prime is Gold Nova I in non-prime.

[6f7665]

Originally posted by FK_Bauer:

It still doesn't relate to prime and non-prime and before f2p in any ways.

It has been almost a year since they made the game f2p, in that year you could've already played 1000hours. Do you see?

Also, I believe that if you can't get out of silver with 1,000 hours and you are seriously trying, it is on your skill.. If you are not motivated and playing on a potato,, then maybe not, but that is on you anyways.

And if you think about a 1000hour silver with a potato laptop and 10fps, do you think he will still outperform these "300 hour silvers"??

It does relate to prime and non prime, you are just talking politics, remember this is not about winning a debate, this is about understanding if there is any rank difference

And yes while some f2p players have gained skill and played a lot of hours it still doesn't apply to the people that hasn't. And they are f2p and they are silver

I did never say a person with 1000h on a potato will be able to outfrag a person with 300fps and 300h, most likely he won't, the f2p player will win

But the thing is more often than not its actually the way that the prime silver just deranked due to inactivity or can't progress in rank due to toxic behaviour. Thus not rendering the prime players unable to frag, actually quite the opposite, they are the ones on top of the scoreboard.

Since its 50/50 (roughly speaking) between prime and f2p in silver its becoming a game of numbers, if you get more prime players in your team than the enemy team you will most likely win.

However computer performance plays a big role as well, if your team loads in before the enemy team you will most likely win as well because it means your team has better computers, remember that silvers sometimes have below 30fps and those "laggers" load in last.

As I played on a potato I deranked but now I have a decent computer that pumps out 120fps and I'm literally wiping most f2p players under the rug, I'm however still dieing to prime AWPs and one taps and other stuff the PRIME players pull off.

But its still a cointoss, imagine this scenario:

(team A)
Ex GNM @ 120FPS + 2000H
lagger @ 15FPS + 700H
lagger2 @ 30FPS/200ping + 800H
F2P noob/300H +500fps
F2P noob2/500H +100fps (playing with shaders and 8xMSAA cuz doesn't know better)

(team B)
Ex G3 @ 700FPS + 1500H
Ex GNM @ 500FPS + 1000H
Ex G1 @ 900FPS + 800H
f2p laggernoob/300H @ 40FPS
lagger @ 70FPS/190ping +1200H

Which team will win? Most likely team B because they have 3 old players that has had higher ranks and only 2 players with impaired aim capabilities.

[Moonman]

Of course it is a difference. F2P players bring their cheats to prime and tell they are "smurfs". Paid players are honest and legit and have to relay on their natural skill.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Sounds about right... or somewhat inverse.

But I see no reason for a player to receive a drastic change in rank just because they acquired Prime status. A player's rank will increase over time as he continues to improve.

[6f7665]

Originally posted by Schrödinger's Cat:

Sounds about right... or somewhat inverse.

But I see no reason for a player to receive a drastic change in rank just because they acquired Prime status. A player's rank will increase over time as he continues to improve.

Yeah when I think of it, it could actually be the other way around for higher ranks, that free to play players are pushed down from higher ranks by cheaters and thus the average f2p LEM will be slightly better than the prime LEM, I cannot say for sure tho because I haven't reached that rank yet.

But as it is in silver its quite wierd actually, some have a very high amount of skill (usually old prime players) and some have a ridiculously low amount of skill, to the point where you wonder if you really was born on the same planet as that person.

I just think it's unfair for old prime player to get cointoss matches, but yeah eventually the f2p players derank to s1 and the old primers get SE/GN.

[BusterMcnutty]

Originally posted by -oVe-:

Originally posted by Schrödinger's Cat:

Sounds about right... or somewhat inverse.

But I see no reason for a player to receive a drastic change in rank just because they acquired Prime status. A player's rank will increase over time as he continues to improve.

Yeah when I think of it, it could actually be the other way around for higher ranks, that free to play players are pushed down from higher ranks by cheaters and thus the average f2p LEM will be slightly better than the prime LEM, I cannot say for sure tho because I haven't reached that rank yet.

But as it is in silver its quite wierd actually, some have a very high amount of skill (usually old prime players) and some have a ridiculously low amount of skill, to the point where you wonder if you really was born on the same planet as that person.

I just think it's unfair for old prime player to get cointoss matches, but yeah eventually the f2p players derank to s1 and the old primers get SE/GN.

If the though crosses your mind during the game that they must be from another planet than you , and your playing non prime. 90 % odds say that they are cheating lmao. There are not many people who have invested the time into the game that it takes to be that good and can't manage to get level 21 or pay the measly 15 bucks it cost lmao.

[SourApple]

Originally posted by FK_Bauer:

This doesn't make any sense. Having the loyalty badge doesn't mean that you're a better player than someone that started csgo post 6th of December 2018. Yes, they have owned and probably played csgo for a longer time, but it doesn't make them instantly better.

Your logic on non-primers/f2p primers at Gold Nova Meister being the loyalty badge prime equivalent of a Silver 3 makes no sense. The ranks are already "synced" Both matchmaking methods use the same system.

It's not about the prime/non-prime status, every player is an individual with a different skill set, your just being delusional here.

The dude isnt delusional. If youre a non prime and you played comp you get matched with non prime players too.

I am currently gn3 here meanwhile in my alt im LE but its not out of non prime yet. You see the skill gap and game knowledge in non prime and prime is very big. Thats why most of the time people come to the forums and complain about people being boosted but they arent boosted, thry just came from non prime.

I must say that prime silvers are better players on non prime.

[6f7665]

Bumping with some new evidence:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/1629665087675292942/

here we have the average new primer that is getting 1-3 kills in a game and openly admits he wants to go back to non-prime.

For the greater good these people should be reranked (play 10 placement games) when they get prime so they don't need to rank down from gold nova to silver 1 the long hard way and be useless team mates to the more experienced prime silvers.

of course this is not all black and white but the skil difference between an old player from 2016 that lost his rank and ended up in s2 is going to be literally night and day compared to the average newprimer. The average silver is still somewhere in between and can't really do nothing about the situation, they can just pray they get more old players than new in their team, that's really all they can do.

These new prime players regret getting prime, they don't want to play when they only get 1-3 kills per game, they will derank and lose the rank they thought they deserved, they will be humiliated by the ranking system and burn the eyes out of their team mates that spectate them, old prime players. Spectating these people when you are an old player makes you think you deserve more, that the rank system is a failure and that you and the other topfragger (ex DMG) on the other team, that you two, deserve a higher rank

I think the CS:GO devs should make it so that the ranking systems are synced so that old players get a higher rank while new players are placed lower pushing the old ones up, or alternatively make it so that they need to do new placement matches when getting prime. This will furthermore give some old experienced silver elites the gold nova rank and thus giving us more overwatch investigators, which is a good thing considering.