Not joining the Thieves Guild

[Fhtagn]

You see, I made a mage-type character who focuses on destruction magic and enchanting. I do not intend to spend any of my perks on any of the Thief skills. I have two characters who already joined the guild and I noticed that most of its quests require a lot of sneaking and since I have low sneak level, I may have a hard time progressing through the guild.

I know, I can choose not to join the guild (and I really don't want to, for the sake of role-playing, sorry if you find me weird) but there is this thing that bothers me. Part of the main story line is to locate Esbern, and in order to locate him I need to talk to Vekel. After speaking to Vekel about Esbern's location, Brynjolf immediately speaks to me expanding on the Guild's quest, "Taking Care of Business". Is there a way to stay away from Brynjolf? I tried walking away immediately away from Vekel as soon as I got the quest marker on Esbern but I am worried that the Taking Care of Business might bug out on me considering I didn't talk to Brynjolf yet (and I guess the game wants me to since Brynjolf is the one that starts the conversation, not you, so that means that you need to accept and finish the conversation right? I am affraid not doing so can alter the script).

[Theo Hardmeier]

There is a high level persuasion check to avoid the quest if I remember right.

[Fhtagn]

Originally posted by Theo Hardmeier:

There is a high level persuasion check to avoid the quest if I remember right.

None, as Brynjolf talks to me about getting the three debts, there's no other option but to proceed to it and start it anyway. Not even an option on asking if I would like to do it or not. This is the one I want to stay away from that's why I don't want to start a conversation with Brynjolf after finishing the A Chance Agreement.

Just in case, let me clear somehing up:
A Cornered Rat starts > I locate and talk to Brynjolf for information about Esbern > Brnyjolf tells me to steal something in exchange for the info > A Chance Agreement starts > I finished the quest > Taking Care of Business starts > I ignored it for the sake of not joining the guild > I proceeded with A Cornered Rat > quest told me to go find Vekel > I spoke to Vekel and bribed him out on Esbern's location > I exited the conversation until sufficient information was achieved > Brynjolf walks up to me and starts a conversation > conversation lead to expand Taking Care of Business wherein it asks me to collect three debts > ?

You see, the conversation with Brynjolf, and I quote, "...I exited the conversation until sufficient information was achieved > Brynjolf walks up to me and starts a conversation >..." is the one I want to prevent from happening.

[gnewna]

There are basically two ways around this, one: metagame. Assuming your character is smart, and knows enough to know that the Guild might be able to help, they can probably also find out where the Guild hang out. From there, they could just waltz in. If you want a plausible explanation as to why the Guild don't object to your character going into the Vaults area, you could always 'bribe' Delvin by paying one session of sneak training. Won't make a huge difference to your character.

Two: mod - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14157/? This can be used either for a thief who you want to have to display some actual skill before Brynjolf is interested, or simply to prevent Brynjolf bothering to ask an obviously non-thiefy character to join his group.

Alternatively, just make "sure, yeah, whatever" noises at Brynjolf and then ignore the quest in your journal.

Wait, I just re-read your posts, you already did the first task for Brynjolf? Then, yeah, he's gonna assume you're at least kinda interested in working with him when he sees you in the Ratway. You might be able to use this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26359/? but IDK, it might be too late.

[Fhtagn]

Originally posted by gnewna:

Alternatively, just make "sure, yeah, whatever" noises at Brynjolf and then ignore the quest in your journal.

This, this is what I need to train my self for. I always have the attitude of finishing up a quest immediately. I mean, when I get involved in a role-playing game too much I somehow put my mind in to the game. I have this voice in my head that says "hey, finish this quest already, you don't want Brynjolf to be waiting." Yes, I know, it may sound weird but this is what happens to me when I get involved too deep in a role-playing game, especially that I fell in love with Skyrim, hard. So now, I'll just go, "yeah Bryn, I'll get those debts or whatever, just you wait, I guess..."

Thanks for this, I mean really. I always lose that thought of "hey, this is only a game, people in here can wait forever. I mean, you live life, you work, you get married, have children, grow old, die, live in the afterlife, your body rots, you bones dissolve, you'll be nothing else but a memory, and Brynjolf would still be waiting for those debts as if he only asked you for it a few minutes ago."

Originally posted by gnewna:

Wait, I just re-read your posts, you already did the first task for Brynjolf? Then, yeah, he's gonna assume you're at least kinda interested in working with him when he sees you in the Ratway. You might be able to use this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26359/? but IDK, it might be too late.

By first task you mean, the one where I steal Madesi's ring and place it on Brand-Shei? If so, yes since it is part of the main storyline quest.

[gnewna]

Aye, but technically you can a/ mess up the job (i.e. if you enter any building or leave Riften altogether, or get caught, you fail the job, Brynjolf grumbles at you but still wants you to join) or b/ speak to Keerava and get info about the Ratway from her, then make your way into the place. Obviously that does require metagaming a bit, but I think it's quite plausible that someone who doesn't want to get involved with thievery would look around for other options, and innkeepers are usually a good source of info/gossip. (Even if you *want* to join the Guild, by the way, if you mess up the first job by getting caught/'accidentally' leaving the marketplace you can still join and do the full questline, without getting poor Brand-Shei in trouble. Of course, that depends on whether your character would care more about getting that nice market trader in trouble, or about impressing the guy they want to work for!)

I do get what you mean about leaving quests waiting, I tend to do a lot of scribbling in the margins, so to speak ("oh, Delphine wants me to go to a party at the Thalmor Embassy? Huh, okay, but she says it's not for about a month, so I've got time to go and do that other thing...")

[Kahlana]

Originally posted by gnewna:

this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26359/?

Thank you very much for linking this, it looks wonderfully usefull!

Like OP I don't wish to join the Thieves guild this playtrough (nor the DB actually).

[gnewna]

It's very handy - he has some fantastic mods, I really recommend checking out Disparity, Complete Crafting Overhaul, Timing is Everything, Trade and Barter, Weapons and Armour Fixes, Clothing and Clutter Fixes - I'm pretty sure his other mods are all just as good, but those are the ones I use myself.

[Belanos]

Originally posted by Domination:

Part of the main story line is to locate Esbern, and in order to locate him I need to talk to Vekel. After speaking to Vekel about Esbern's location, Brynjolf immediately speaks to me expanding on the Guild's quest, "Taking Care of Business". Is there a way to stay away from Brynjolf?.

Here you go:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14157/?

Brynjolf will no longer approach you until you've fulfilled a number of thieving things. You'll need SkyUI for it. If you do decide to join, you will be required to do a number of radiant quests before advanced in the ranks.

[raubrey]

Also, you can ignore Brynolf and ask the barkeep in the Red Flagon. It is a persuade/pay gold conversation. That might not resolve the internal voices problem, but it moves the quest along. I think hitting ESC (breaking the conversation) or just flat-out telling him "No" (whichever the negative reply is) causes him to move to the inn and out of your hair, unless you reapproach him and open dialog.

[Stormsong]

All of these replies confused me. On the quest to find Esbern, when Delphine speaks to you and says talk to Brynjolf and he says he wants to have you steal Medesi's ring first [PAUSE]. Right here, at this point (so long as you've not spoken to Brynjolf before), there IS a persuasion check. To be specific it says dragons are bad for business (Persuade) if your persuasion is high enough Brynjolf agrees and tells you straight away to go to the vaults. You don't have to talk to Vekel, you don't have to do his scheme in the marketplace and your quest marker moves right to the door of the vaults. At least that was my experience, so OP you don't have to join the Thieves Guild to see the MQ completed.

[SpeedFreak1972]

Alternatively go directly to the ratways ... Delphine hints he's there and ask in the ragged flagon (barman)

[Fhtagn]

Originally posted by Belanos:

Originally posted by Domination:

Part of the main story line is to locate Esbern, and in order to locate him I need to talk to Vekel. After speaking to Vekel about Esbern's location, Brynjolf immediately speaks to me expanding on the Guild's quest, "Taking Care of Business". Is there a way to stay away from Brynjolf?.

Here you go:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14157/?

Brynjolf will no longer approach you until you've fulfilled a number of thieving things. You'll need SkyUI for it. If you do decide to join, you will be required to do a number of radiant quests before advanced in the ranks.

Noting this. Thanks!

Originally posted by raubrey:

Also, you can ignore Brynolf and ask the barkeep in the Red Flagon. It is a persuade/pay gold conversation. That might not resolve the internal voices problem, but it moves the quest along. I think hitting ESC (breaking the conversation) or just flat-out telling him "No" (whichever the negative reply is) causes him to move to the inn and out of your hair, unless you reapproach him and open dialog.

I haven't tried that yet and neither did I knew that I can go directly to Vekel xD. Anyway, as what gnewa said, I talked to Keerava in the Bee and the Barb and she has this dialogue that directly leads me to Vekel without talking to Brynjolf ever. Taking note if this if ever I will make another character soon. Thanks!

Originally posted by Stormsong the Fallen:

All of these replies confused me. On the quest to find Esbern, when Delphine speaks to you and says talk to Brynjolf and he says he wants to have you steal Medesi's ring first [PAUSE]. Right here, at this point (so long as you've not spoken to Brynjolf before), there IS a persuasion check. To be specific it says dragons are bad for business (Persuade) if your persuasion is high enough Brynjolf agrees and tells you straight away to go to the vaults. You don't have to talk to Vekel, you don't have to do his scheme in the marketplace and your quest marker moves right to the door of the vaults. At least that was my experience, so OP you don't have to join the Thieves Guild to see the MQ completed.

I tried reloading a save wherein I get to chose to talk to either Bryn or Keerava so then I tried talking to Bryn about that "dragon and business" statement. Since I have low speech skill I guess I can't talk Bryn out of it yet. Thanks for this though, taking note of it just in case of a new 'talkative' character I'll make soon. Also, thanks for correcting me that THERE IS is a persuasion check. I deeply apologize @Theo Hardmeier.

Originally posted by SpeedFreak1972:

Alternatively go directly to the ratways ... Delphine hints he's there and ask in the ragged flagon (barman)

Didn't try out this option yet where I get to go directly. Thanks for this!

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by Domination:

You see, I made a mage-type character who focuses on destruction magic and enchanting. I do not intend to spend any of my perks on any of the Thief skills. I have two characters who already joined the guild and I noticed that most of its quests require a lot of sneaking and since I have low sneak level, I may have a hard time progressing through the guild.

Huh? Pretty much *none* of the TG quests require sneaking and a dissapointingly small number (and absolutely none in the main TG questline) require you to *steal* anything.

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=14422

[kdodds]

Originally posted by gnewna:

Alternatively, just make "sure, yeah, whatever" noises at Brynjolf and then ignore the quest in your journal.

100% this. As in life, there are situations your character will be in that he/she may not want to be in. I actually like this bit about Skyrim. You get cornered and sucked in by the Guild, which is appropriate to their temperments. Then you, as the PC, have a choice to make, do it or don't. Look at your Quest Log as more of a memory enhancer than a to do list. Uncheck the Quests you have no intention of completing and move on.

Many people feel the same way about the Winterhold tie-in. In which case, I say the same thing. Roleplay the game. Realize that your character is not privy to the same knowledge to which you, the player, are privy. It is a roleplaying game, after all, and this is the difference between a good roleplayer and a great one, a player who ignores what he/she knows. For instance, my necromancer, who would drool over the Ebony Blade, has had no reason or chance to even find out about the quest, so... not doin' it.

[gnewna]

I'd really, really like it if the next game made the journal a bit interactive, either let us remove quests altogether (possibly unpopular as people would be bound to change their minds) or let us make notes - "yeah, sure, I'm so gonna do this..." Even some kind of ranking system would be good, you know, high priority and urgent, high priority but it can wait a while, not really important but I want to do it soon, I'll do it if I'm the area, never gonna happen. One advantage of Skyrim's journal over the Oblivion/Morrowind one is it lets you have multiple active quests which is useful for checking what there is to be done nearby. (It's a pain in the neck with the vanilla HUD and its ever present compass of jobs, but with iHUD it's useful, or one can always toggle things on for planning).