Get rid of the crusher level

[Nuc_Temeron]

So, I'm having a great run for a change, when I fall through a trap I didn't see, which put me in a dead end with 3 crushers blocking the exit. No way to destroy them. No way to outrun them. No way around them. I died.

Having the game say "Welp, it's time to die now" regardless of how your game is going, is not great.

Alternatives: Just spawn one crusher. Make the level less hall-like. Make crushers barely mobile.

[Kyzrati]

There are safe ways to deal with Waste. It can't kill you unless you make too many mistakes there. Some players actually seek those areas out specifically because there are several means to use them to your advantage. That said, now that you mention it it might be a good idea to completely remove them from the easiest difficulty mode. Opinions? I know some players on the easier modes even like it, so not sure about that, either...

I can't find it right now but there was a discussion on r/Cogmind not too long ago about strategies for surviving Waste.

[DDarkray]

One of the headaches with Waste is the possibility of hitting dead ends. Crushers move very slowly, so as long as you're not overweight on tread, you should be able to outrun them. (Unless you move backward via system corruption) But with dead ends, you're dead. And for some players, it's not always obvious to see which points are dead ends or not, so they may accidentally try to escape there and get crushed.

I believe there are a total of 6 Crushers in Waste? With that number and the current map layout, it can be difficult to avoid the possibility of heading into another group of Crushers and get surrounded. This is probably the most frustrating moment (and most seemingly RNG-based too) because it would seem as if there's no way to avoid being surrounded, and you'll have to accept the sandwiching effect at the end.

Here's my idea for making Waste easier: Add more hallways to the map layout, and remove dead ends. Even if the map is a bit larger, as long as there's more escape points, there should be a lot less sandwiching effects and a lot easier to survive. (Which would mean simply running around is also a viable strategy! Kinda reminds me of playing Pacman...)

[Kyzrati]

I don't think it needs to be made easier, considering how survivable it already is. It shouldn't be a complete pushover considering all the benefits of going there.

Certainly on one's first visit death for some players is a little more likely, but that's why I added the scripted derelict to everyone's first (and only first) visit, so that he gets crushed and to show that you really don't want to get near those things.

It's also why all the hallways are at least 4 spaces wide, so that it's possible to outmaneuver them. Crushers are slow and easily outmaneuvered. I've several times considered making them just a little slower, but even that would make the whole place far too easy.

The only condition under which you won't be able to avoid being hit a few times is while on treads, a setup under which you should probably have the firepower to outright take them down, either that or you don't need to be on treads in the first place and can switch to something else.

[DDarkray]

There was a discussion found here.

Originally posted by GJ:

Crushers in particular are very vulnerable to crits, armor analysis processors, and explosive damage. There's reactive measures such as keeping 2-slot hover in your inventory, which you can afford, such that you can quickly replace your heavy treads with hover, maybe drop a large storage unit, and flee if you really need to. Still primarily a treads build as those treads are why you can afford to have that back-up plan in your inventory.

Originally posted by zxc:

Chutes are really punishing, that is true, but there has been interest in farming chutes by some players. With treads, I think your weapon loadout needs to be rather strong, in which case you should be able to deal with crushers. Avoid EM weapons, and stack off with thermal and kinetics, or perhaps explosive launchers. If your weapon loadout isn't so strong, then treads weren't going to work well anyway. Perhaps chutes could do with being somewhat rarer.

You can absolutely kill them with say, four thermal or kinetic cannons, or a couple of explosive launchers. It takes a few volleys, so the risk is that more of them come for you and you can't kill them quickly enough. So you do need to play carefully and try to engage with the best positioning possible, and note if your movement speed is faster than theirs for some luring/kiting (some people drop most of their items at the start of wastes so they can kite quickly with just weapons).

Although the above tips are geared toward tread combat build, the same can be applied for legged combat build as well. In fact, it should be somewhat easier to deal with Crushers since you're faster than them.

[Malthusis]

This is a bit late, but there's an even easier strategy then all this: Keep a melee weapon on hand, and simply dig into the wall when you're stuck into a dead end. Crushers won't be able to chase you into walls, so all you have to deal with is an occasional EMP blast as you dig through the wall to a point you won't be stuck, then break out and keep on running.

[DDarkray]

Originally posted by Malthusis:

This is a bit late, but there's an even easier strategy then all this: Keep a melee weapon on hand, and simply dig into the wall when you're stuck into a dead end.

That, my friend, is my favorite way of dealing with crushers.

[Kyzrati]

Very true, always having at least a backup melee weapon is a life saver in so so many situations. Never be without one :D

[Nuc_Temeron]

I hadn't considered that approach, thank you.

[Kyzrati]

Just beware that if you do too much tunneling you can cause nasty cave-ins, so if possible it's still best to deal with (or avoid) them using other means rather than digging through too much earth. Or cut corners to keep the dig distance down. (But in the end an occasional cave-in will have much less of an effect on you than what they do to you if you're caught :P)

[PhenomPhear]

Originally posted by Nuc_Temeron:

So, I'm having a great run for a change, when I fall through a trap I didn't see, which put me in a dead end with 3 crushers blocking the exit. No way to destroy them. No way to outrun them. No way around them. I died.

Having the game say "Welp, it's time to die now" regardless of how your game is going, is not great.

Alternatives: Just spawn one crusher. Make the level less hall-like. Make crushers barely mobile.

I can teach you something that will make you want to go into wastes / chute traps. Meet me at cogmind Discord. https://discord.gg/vbJWSy

[Snoopkirby]

If you're too slow but have explosive weapons you should be able to get out unharmed, they are very vulnerable to explosives.

Originally posted by PhenomPhear:

Originally posted by Nuc_Temeron:

So, I'm having a great run for a change, when I fall through a trap I didn't see, which put me in a dead end with 3 crushers blocking the exit. No way to destroy them. No way to outrun them. No way around them. I died.

Having the game say "Welp, it's time to die now" regardless of how your game is going, is not great.

Alternatives: Just spawn one crusher. Make the level less hall-like. Make crushers barely mobile.

I can teach you something that will make you want to go into wastes / chute traps. Meet me at cogmind Discord. https://discord.gg/vbJWSy

Discord link isn't working.

[Kyzrati]

PhenomPhear is possibly not familiar with Discord linking :P. We have a permanent/non-expiring link which is posted on the site, subreddit, and here in the forums info post: https://discord.gg/9pmFGKx

[PhenomPhear]

Yea... I am not. Lol. Need more coffee