Better Ending for Refugees [Spoiler]

[BaconHer0]

Seems like if you do right by the Del Hackett and let them stay in the barracks, they all end up lined up against a wall and shot whether you sided with Angela or the Patriarch

I don't know if they survive if you get them to relocate to the brig or not but this dimension feels like a bit of an afterthought

Del Hackett says she'll make themselves useful for letting them stay but there's no evidence of this. They just loaf around in the barracks all day

The refugee's situation could easily be improved throughout the game. There are far better places than the brig to house refugees.

The giant museum seems like wasted space
There's an underground bunker as well.
In town, if you cleared out the Casino, that's a great place for the refugees.
The Bizarre also has plenty of room once the clowns are gone
Denver Airport could be a home for them if the AI is on your side
They could takeover from The Gippers if Denver was free from Godfishers

Right now all you get is a plus or minus to reputation and rangers or refugees complaining all day without a chance to solve the problem - then they end up dead. Seems very unsatisfying

[Zaris]

For the refugees: Put them in the brig and they will survive the endfight because they one ranger there shut them in. And yes the whole game smells like 50% finished in its current state considering the mainstory and over 5-6 inaccessable places on the world map like the whole southwest with 3 spots alone.

[dnrob7]

I was disappointed in the refugees too, but I wouldn't say it was bad game design.
I think it was designed really well, actually.

When we got back at the end and everything had gone to ♥♥♥♥ and I find the refugees are there waiting to fight me in the streets, I just felt like I had made a mistake from the beginning.. The Marshals were right. These ungrateful ♥♥♥♥♥ never cared about the place they found refuge in, they only cared about themselves.. Like they were owed something.

I was fair, I gave them a chance to become part of it all but no, they chose to help burn down and loot the place instead.
Then, as I finally come face to face with my mistake and have to gun them down, their final words are "we just wanted a place to live".. BS!
If that's what they wanted, all they had to do was sit tight and trust in those that tried to help them..

Some things you can't fix. Not every story has a happy ending. How much are you willing to lose in pursuit of some imaginary happy ending before you are willing to face how things really are?
Did you really expect that the whole world had it all wrong this whole time? That you had "a better way" based on some emotional whim? No.

[BaconHer0]

Originally posted by dnrob7:

I was disappointed in the refugees too, but I wouldn't say it was bad game design.
I think it was designed really well, actually.

Your points make sense but you aren't given the opportunity to challenge the refuges or rectify your mistakes.

Like if I discovered that the refugees were actually unrepentant, parasitic, freeloaders I would have liked to give them a chance to change or become food for my pets.

Right now it's like a blind gamble at the start of the game and you can't cut your loss, which really makes no sense

[dnrob7]

Originally posted by BaconHer0:

Originally posted by dnrob7:

I was disappointed in the refugees too, but I wouldn't say it was bad game design.
I think it was designed really well, actually.

Your points make sense but you aren't given the opportunity to challenge the refuges or rectify your mistakes.

Like if I discovered that the refugees were actually unrepentant, parasitic, freeloaders I would have liked to give them a chance to change or become food for my pets.

Right now it's like a blind gamble at the start of the game and you can't cut your loss, which really makes no sense

You say it doesn't make sense but that's life^ You can't always know ahead of time. You just have to go with what you believe is right.
Just because you had a choice doesn't mean there was a good one.
Just because you have the benefit of hindsight doesn't mean you can change the past.
Just because you had only the best intentions doesn't mean it will all be ok in the end.

This is why I both hated how things turned out but liked and respected how the story was told. Sometimes, as you look back at the pile of ash, all you can do is remind yourself that your intentions were pure. No songs will be sung or stories told of your efforts regarding this one but you know you tried.. And that's that.

[BaconHer0]

I mean it doesn't make sense that you can't kick them out again.

I totally agree that predicting outcomes IRL is folly and that sometimes even if you make all the right moves you can still lose

What doesn't make sense is that for some reason you can't change your mind half way. Like, why can't you just say "Sorry guys, you refugees have not done a single bit of work and are riling up my troops - time to turn you into dog food"

It doesn't make sense that the refugees made a bunch of promises so that they can stay, then fail to deliver, and you can't confront them about it. It's like if you invite a guest to your house and he burns down the curtains and you can't ask him to leave - that doesn't make sense

[dnrob7]

Originally posted by BaconHer0:

I mean it doesn't make sense that you can't kick them out again.

I totally agree that predicting outcomes IRL is folly and that sometimes even if you make all the right moves you can still lose

What doesn't make sense is that for some reason you can't change your mind half way. Like, why can't you just say "Sorry guys, you refugees have not done a single bit of work and are riling up my troops - time to turn you into dog food"

It doesn't make sense that the refugees made a bunch of promises so that they can stay, then fail to deliver, and you can't confront them about it. It's like if you invite a guest to your house and he burns down the curtains and you can't ask him to leave - that doesn't make sense

Ah, yeh, I do remember thinking that too.. I'd come back from whatever adventure and check on them and they'd always just be there, existing but not doing anything.
At the time i also noticed that there was always more recruits too so what would the refugees need to be doing that the new rangers wouldn't do? I guess they could clean the place? But then who's to say they weren't doing jobs like that anyway? Personally I think all the sweeping up jobs went to the refugees.
I do agree that there should have been some way to make them useful in a visible way.

This seeming lack of opportunity also occurred to me after it all went down and it made me even more angry with them.. This civil war was finally their time to shine. When it all came falling down, that was their time to earn their place in Colorado. Even if they weren't fighting the battles, after it was over, every pair of hands, every skill set would have been needed.

But yes, seeing them just standing around every time you come back to base was not great. Even if the devs just put brooms in their hands, it would have been way better.

[N0thing]

Still ♥♥♥♥ lol