why so little love for this game compared to BG3?

[zockexzess]

Playing WL3 on SJ, probably 66% finished, loving it. Haven't yet played BG3, but as I already adore WL3, I'm a bit puzzled... EVERYONE loves BG3, but WL3 seems a forgotten game with no plans to even continue the series. Someone who played both games: Is BG3 really that much better? How so (story spoiler free info please)? I CAN'T imagine HOW you can create a much metter cRPG than WL3?!

[agentkido]

Originally posted by DoltTheWickedGerman:

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

Thanks for the points, but I'd prefer for us to have a genuine discussion about this.

My credentials is that I have played *all* cRPG games that has ever released since 2000. I have played cRPG/RPG almost exclusively since 2000.

BG3 is objectively better than WL2/3 combined. That's a fact. You can look up any metric, numerical, quantifiable data - it's all pointing out that conclusion.

I personally *loved* Wasteland 3, it's better than Wasteland 2 (mostly because I disliked the UI), but that doesn't blind me to how influential BG3 than WL2/3 could ever been.

Wait, are you just "discussing" with yourself?

people sometimes argue with their demons.

[agentkido]

Originally posted by agentkido:

Originally posted by DoltTheWickedGerman:

Wait, are you just "discussing" with yourself?

people someones argue with their demons.

yes we do.

[VDRSK]

Originally posted by agentkido:

people someones argue with their demons.

Originally posted by agentkido:

yes we do.

That got a good laugh out of me.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

It was an attempt to communicate with the point giver. While I grateful for the points, I'd rather have a good discussion, because it seems a lot of people still coping with how Baldur's Gate 3 is in fact an Objectively a better game and is in fact potentially the greatest RPG in this decade.

[Nomicoe]

Regardless of which is better, Id be pretty hesitant to give a 100million dollar game "rpg of the decade" with that many bugs.

Not sure which one Id vote for, but not one that has a final chapter that is almost unanimously hated by its player base, which the majority refuse to complete, even though it contains some of the easiest fights in the whole game.

This coming from someone with 300+hrs in BG3, so not just being a hater.
I just couldnt in good conscious piss away a vote to a game that STILL isnt finished.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

Originally posted by Dev1:

Wasteland 3 on release for me did following:
Lost skills on characters
Taken items from my inventory
Had me locked out during fights which was only cured by reloading them
Dismissal function was working like ass
Animal companions never scaled, and you could only have more than one if you never let any of them go.

Cool, BG3 was just as bad, if not worse. Remember the unplayable 3rd chapter? My point is, complaining about bugs, when theyre both riddled is dumb. As mentioned, bg3 still has companion lockouts even.

No, I don't remember the unplayable 3rd chapter....because it was ALWAYS playable.

[Nomicoe]

Originally posted by Jeff:

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

Cool, BG3 was just as bad, if not worse. Remember the unplayable 3rd chapter? My point is, complaining about bugs, when theyre both riddled is dumb. As mentioned, bg3 still has companion lockouts even.

No, I don't remember the unplayable 3rd chapter....because it was ALWAYS playable.

Thats strange cause I just searched on google and reddit, and all the old posts are still there, hundreds of them talking about the 3rd chapter being broken/unplayable.
You could have been one of the lucky ones tho? But yea, posts/articles are still there.
I know my one buddy has a horrible pc, super old, and he made it through fine, so it could be random?
This is my 4th time in Ch3 and its worse than the 1st when it comes to bugs tho.. Which is very odd.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

Regardless of which is better, Id be pretty hesitant to give a 100million dollar game "rpg of the decade" with that many bugs.

Not sure which one Id vote for, but not one that has a final chapter that is almost unanimously hated by its player base, which the majority refuse to complete, even though it contains some of the easiest fights in the whole game.

This coming from someone with 300+hrs in BG3, so not just being a hater.
I just couldnt in good conscious piss away a vote to a game that STILL isnt finished.

You don't need too. Milions others already did. It's a collective decision. The Market, The Capital has decided, if we are going to use Monetary gain as the metric, no other cRPG since DOS2 has received as much money as BG3 did.

Hated? More like Mixed. But hey, if you have quantified data, I would love to see it.

That is not to say that the game is without flaw. Nothing is flawless. But overall BG3 is net positive of good things. The same thing with Wasteland 3, the game is riddled without bug from start to end up until the last DLC released (and it still has some too), but it's overall a good game.

[Nomicoe]

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

Regardless of which is better, Id be pretty hesitant to give a 100million dollar game "rpg of the decade" with that many bugs.

Not sure which one Id vote for, but not one that has a final chapter that is almost unanimously hated by its player base, which the majority refuse to complete, even though it contains some of the easiest fights in the whole game.

This coming from someone with 300+hrs in BG3, so not just being a hater.
I just couldnt in good conscious piss away a vote to a game that STILL isnt finished.

You don't need too. Milions others already did. It's a collective decision. The Market, The Capital has decided, if we are going to use Monetary gain as the metric, no other cRPG since DOS2 has received as much money as BG3 did.

Hated? More like Mixed. But hey, if you have quantified data, I would love to see it.

That is not to say that the game is without flaw. Nothing is flawless. But overall BG3 is net positive of good things. The same thing with Wasteland 3, the game is riddled without bug from start to end up until the last DLC released (and it still has some too), but it's overall a good game.

I hate asking, cause I feel dumb, but is there an actual game of the decade award? Cause I havent seen one, I dont remember one in 2013, nor can I find one, and its 2024... So, like, wouldnt game of the decade be from 2030 or even 2025 and below? Be weird to say "best game of the decade" and start on an odd year? If there is an actual award people voted for, that would be cool to see as I would have voted for sure, even if it didnt matter. (just like american politics eh? haha) Also be surprised if it beat out Witcher 3, so would def love to see the vote off between those two as both their fans are crazy supportive.

Im not sure how I would go about quantifying data on a single chapter, but its pretty obvious when you go to any fan discussion page, steam, reddit, or otherwise, that the 3rd chapter is by far the worst, at one point, having a severely abysmal completion percentage of like 17 percent compared to like 35% in the 2nd chapter.
100 million dollar budget, and not even 1/4 of your players complete the game? Not sure how to quantify that, but I would say thats pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥ considering how rabid the fanbase is.

Im sure theres some excuse for the lack of people beating the game, or some other way we can make it look good compared to others.. Hell, when comparing numbers, Taylor Swift gonna win album of the decade, and Im sure theres millions who will scream over anything of any substance and make it so.

To me, while I enjoy black and white numbers telling the truth, Im also honest about how popularity and marketing are key factors in success.. So I would never expect a game like DIsco Elysium or WL3 to ever get the recognition as something as big as BG3, that just isnt logical.

Net positive, for sure, bg3 is a net positive tho, but I honestly dont even consider it the best Larian game. Just me tho, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

snip

No, there is no award. Simply consensus defined by quantifiable metrics like sales, player counts etc.

Baldur's gate 3 will likely the only RPG (as in true RPG/cRPG that released in this decade). So it is automatically, probably will define the RPG/cRPG genre for this decade.

InXile is not working on Wasteland 4 afaik, Obsidian is not working on Pillars of Eternity 3, BioWare's Dragon Age 4 is likely more action less RPG (but with fantastic story so everyone can forget that they only ever given binary choices in most if not all of their quests), Bethesda's TES will probably released by the end of this decade if I'm being optimistic, but we'll see how many RPG features being striped down by the dev. Fallout 5 probably will be released in 2030+ so I'm not holding my breath on that one.

The other candidate would be Avowed, but I'm expecting a mixed around 70-80 average score (especially when cryptofash found out how Carrie Patel looks like), The Outer Worlds 2 probably a slight improvement over TOW1.

As for your question, *plenty* of people doesn't finished their game, it's always been 10-15% of the player base. Especially when it comes to cRPG. You can check those who get ending achievement on DOS2, PoE1/2, Solasta, Encased, Wasteland 3 etc.

So 20% of 10 Million players (roughly 2mil) (BG3), is bigger than 20% of 2 Million players who finished Wasteland 3 (400k people). We can draw a mathematical conclusion from that.

Whether budget for the game is 100million or 69 billions, that's just human condition.

Most people talk that they want a "long game", but when they've been given one, they can't retain focus. And on top of that RPG (cRPG) is a niche genre.

Disco Elysium got their own recognition, it's a Classic, only contrarian who doesn't play RPG who would say it is a bad game. Like I said, Wasteland 3 was riddled with bug and InXile didn't do a particularly good job on marketing.

[Nomicoe]

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

snip

No, there is no award. Simply consensus defined by quantifiable metrics like sales, player counts etc.

Baldur's gate 3 will likely the only RPG (as in true RPG/cRPG that released in this decade). So it is automatically, probably will define the RPG/cRPG genre for this decade.

InXile is not working on Wasteland 4 afaik, Obsidian is not working on Pillars of Eternity 3, BioWare's Dragon Age 4 is likely more action less RPG (but with fantastic story so everyone can forget that they only ever given binary choices in most if not all of their quests), Bethesda's TES will probably released by the end of this decade if I'm being optimistic, but we'll see how many RPG features being striped down by the dev. Fallout 5 probably will be released in 2030+ so I'm not holding my breath on that one.

The other candidate would be Avowed, but I'm expecting a mixed around 70-80 average score (especially when cryptofash found out how Carrie Patel looks like), The Outer Worlds 2 probably a slight improvement over TOW1.

As for your question, *plenty* of people doesn't finished their game, it's always been 10-15% of the player base. Especially when it comes to cRPG. You can check those who get ending achievement on DOS2, PoE1/2, Solasta, Encased, Wasteland 3 etc.

So 20% of 10 Million players (roughly 2mil) (BG3), is bigger than 20% of 2 Million players who finished Wasteland 3 (400k people). We can draw a mathematical conclusion from that.

Whether budget for the game is 100million or 69 billions, that's just human condition.

Most people talk that they want a "long game", but when they've been given one, they can't retain focus. And on top of that RPG (cRPG) is a niche genre.

Disco Elysium got their own recognition, it's a Classic, only contrarian who doesn't play RPG who would say it is a bad game. Like I said, Wasteland 3 was riddled with bug and InXile didn't do a particularly good job on marketing.

Well until I actually see a real vote, from real people, and someone sets a real bar of when the 10 year starts when they put this vote up... in a place that cant be botted like spotify and other places that "set the metrics"... Ill hold my reservations...
The "human condition" is weird, and I think if we actually had a vote, people would put things like budget into consideration, especially if they actually did have to vote against all the other games that have come out, among a plethora of other factors like time, as rose colored glasses can change perspective dramatically.

Anyways discussion is offtrack.

Any game with 10xs less the budget will get less love unless it's got a crazy huge fanbase, WL3 crowdfunded close to 3 mil I believe.. So yea...

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

Well until I actually see a real vote, from real people, and someone sets a real bar of when the 10 year starts when they put this vote up... in a place that cant be botted like spotify and other places that "set the metrics"... Ill hold my reservations...
The "human condition" is weird, and I think if we actually had a vote, people would put things like budget into consideration, especially if they actually did have to vote against all the other games that have come out, among a plethora of other factors like time, as rose colored glasses can change perspective dramatically.

Anyways discussion is offtrack.

Any game with 10xs less the budget will get less love unless it's got a crazy huge fanbase, WL3 crowdfunded close to 3 mil I believe.. So yea...

Human condition as in an actual how people behave. It's an answer to your question about why 1/5 people finished their games. That's just how it is. The number are even got worse if you look at smaller cRPG (Encased, Colony Ship etc.) - soo... no relations to budget, consideration etc.

We had lengthy discussion about this in PoE2 forum. While it sold less than PoE1, more people finished PoE2 than 1, more people finished "tutorial area", while less people did in PoE1, it indicates that PoE1 is overhyped, and because it's a lot of people's first impression to Eora, a lot of them didn't made it to PoE2 because how "bad" PoE1 is.

Good games doesn't need huge budget to succeed, Disco Elysium did it, Divinity Original Sin 2 did it (with a little less than 2 Mil, too) - both are more influential than WL3.

It's a shame because Wasteland 3 is truly a great cRPG. They should've worked on another sequel, but I guess Microsoft need to push for XBOX titles hard.

[Nomicoe]

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

Originally posted by Nomicoe:

Well until I actually see a real vote, from real people, and someone sets a real bar of when the 10 year starts when they put this vote up... in a place that cant be botted like spotify and other places that "set the metrics"... Ill hold my reservations...
The "human condition" is weird, and I think if we actually had a vote, people would put things like budget into consideration, especially if they actually did have to vote against all the other games that have come out, among a plethora of other factors like time, as rose colored glasses can change perspective dramatically.

Anyways discussion is offtrack.

Any game with 10xs less the budget will get less love unless it's got a crazy huge fanbase, WL3 crowdfunded close to 3 mil I believe.. So yea...

Human condition as in an actual how people behave. It's an answer to your question about why 1/5 people finished their games. That's just how it is. The number are even got worse if you look at smaller cRPG (Encased, Colony Ship etc.) - soo... no relations to budget, consideration etc.

We had lengthy discussion about this in PoE2 forum. While it sold less than PoE1, more people finished PoE2 than 1, more people finished "tutorial area", while less people did in PoE1, it indicates that PoE1 is overhyped, and because it's a lot of people's first impression to Eora, a lot of them didn't made it to PoE2 because how "bad" PoE1 is.

Good games doesn't need huge budget to succeed, Disco Elysium did it, Divinity Original Sin 2 did it (with a little less than 2 Mil, too) - both are more influential than WL3.

It's a shame because Wasteland 3 is truly a great cRPG. They should've worked on another sequel, but I guess Microsoft need to push for XBOX titles hard.

Yea, I didnt say they need a big budget to succeed, I said that any game with 10xs the budget is going to get more love, well unless its a steaming pile of trash or has no significant fan base.

Also, Divinity raised just over 2 million, on top of the money Larian already had they didnt disclose, just a heads up. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin-2/description

My point still stands, give Wasteland 3 or Disco Elysium 100mil, and Im pretty sure popularity numbers are gonna change, simply on marketing alone.

Dnd+Larian fan base, and 100 million is the reason it gets more love.

[Baphomeat]

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

BG3 is objectively better than Wasteland 2 or 3, or both combined.

It's an objective fact.

you spelled subjective wrong.

Frankly I have no hatred for BG3 and Larian but... WotC properties have lost a lot of the draw they had when the early access for BG3 initially released for me... i'm transitioning all of my games to the Modiphius 2d20 system slowly but surely simply because F D&D and WotC. Greedy company that deserves to fade into obscurity.

Ontop of that Wasteland is my niche as a Fallout 1 and 2 player... Wasteland 2+3 are a perfect spiritual successor to the old Interplay Fallout games. Retrofuture/Postapoc with a crude and goofy sense of humor is 100% my vibe... meanwhile Faerun is just painfully generic fantasy created by an OG nerd with very few meaningful changes in like 50 years.

[Rizilliant]

Aside from the MOUNTAIN of technical issues with this game, its just a little too silly compared to Wasteland 2, for me.. They also seem to have made some leaps into futuristic technology, despite being a cold war era post apocalypse...

The game crashes , locks computers, overheats computers, freezes computers, and its just a technical mess that was never fixed