Angela Deth is so Dumb

[Gummi Doedel]

She sais she doesnt want to compromise her morals by saving arizona and leaving colorado to the patriarch, but in the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ discussion wants you to make ironclad the leader of the eastern gangs just to reak havoc on Kansas.... are you kidding me the stupidity with this game is of the charts...

[3D Master]

Agreed, Angela Deth is a hypocritical psychopath, and she needs to be put down.

[Zaris]

Thats because of "realistic story writing":
- Angela has only ~4 soldiers under her command
- Patriarch tried to kill of the ~3-4 tribes but failed 50 long years even with a whole army (= more than 4-5 people) and went for "negoiations" instead
- rangers aren't super soldiers (you can find evidence of many dead rangers throughout both games)
- tribes are at least as powerful as the Patriarchs army

In a normal superhero rpg you would of course crush all factions but the devs tried to go for a realistic approach which left Angela with a last resort plan of gettig rid of the Patriarch by helping the tribes.

But you don't need to follow either the patriarch or Angela:

If you go for a peaceful ending like arresting Patriarch + kids and killing the tribes without Ironclad you can have Angela around convince the rangers to get to Colorado or send help to Arizona with a little warning that the tribes restoring their power. This is, at least for me, the most ranger-like ending for W3.

[Fiach]

Originally posted by Zaris:

Thats because of "realistic story writing":
- Angela has only ~4 soldiers under her command
- Patriarch tried to kill of the ~3-4 tribes but failed 50 long years even with a whole army (= more than 4-5 people) and went for "negoiations" instead
- rangers aren't super soldiers (you can find evidence of many dead rangers throughout both games)
- tribes are at least as powerful as the Patriarchs army

In a normal superhero rpg you would of course crush all factions but the devs tried to go for a realistic approach which left Angela with a last resort plan of gettig rid of the Patriarch by helping the tribes.

But you don't need to follow either the patriarch or Angela:

If you go for a peaceful ending like arresting Patriarch + kids and killing the tribes without Ironclad you can have Angela around convince the rangers to get to Colorado or send help to Arizona with a little warning that the tribes restoring their power. This is, at least for me, the most ranger-like ending for W3.

Thanks for that explanation, I was trying to figure out what I was missing regarding Angelas attitude.

[Rayman.]

Originally posted by Zaris:

Thats because of "realistic story writing":


If you go for a peaceful ending like arresting Patriarch + kids and killing the tribes without Ironclad you can have Angela around convince the rangers to get to Colorado or send help to Arizona with a little warning that the tribes restoring their power. This is, at least for me, the most ranger-like ending for W3.

convincing the rangers to move to colorado is not a good move because you are dooming arizona and the people who supported the rangers. Having two bases, two states under control, the rangers force increases drastically.

Off topic: I wonder where the Echo team is. We don't know anything about them after the event of w2 yet and during w3. Devs could add some directions.

[3D Master]

Originally posted by Zaris:

Thats because of "realistic story writing":
- Angela has only ~4 soldiers under her command
- Patriarch tried to kill of the ~3-4 tribes but failed 50 long years even with a whole army (= more than 4-5 people) and went for "negoiations" instead
- rangers aren't super soldiers (you can find evidence of many dead rangers throughout both games)
- tribes are at least as powerful as the Patriarchs army

In a normal superhero rpg you would of course crush all factions but the devs tried to go for a realistic approach which left Angela with a last resort plan of gettig rid of the Patriarch by helping the tribes.

Irrelevant. Angela's main issue is with the Patriarch doing all these "evil things" or to someone who is capable to thinking beyond black and white, the least bad choices among only bad choices he had; and then goes to do THE EXACT SAME evil thing, ONLY WORSE.

The patriarch's solution at least as the gangs fight amongst each other as much if not more so than they focus on the innocent patriarch's neighbors; while Angel's "solution" unites all the gangs under, a slave-driving blood-saoked ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ which then get unleashed upon her neighbors in Kansas.

You'd think, being "forced to do evil" would make her think that maybe the Patriarch was also "force to do evil", but nope, nothing, there isn't even a single hint of remorse or doubt. It makes her a complete hypocrical, blood-soaked sack of crap of the highest order, and as far as I'm concerned worse than the Patriarch; for on top of doing al lthis, the only way she gets to do it, is turn traitor to the Rangers.

[Normal]

i killed both angela and the patriarch and went back to arizona and i got the best ending possible

[State Line Crosser]

Angela earned her death in wasteland 2.

[ComeOnYaGits]

I completely agree. I personally think she got brain damage from that helicopter crash of hers. Either that or she's just a psychopath.


Spoilers ahead, so don't read if you haven't played the game yet.

She wants you to kill all the children of the Patriarch instead of arresting them just because they have the surname and therefore legitimacy to the 'throne'.

She then tells you there's the other 'side' to the story of the Patriarch. That 'side' is revealed when she tricks you (because yes, that's exactly what she does) into killing men loyal to Patriarch and freeing Ironclad (who's an insane psychopathic slaver that wants to kill everyone not willing to follow him (and become a cyborg btw). And if you choose the 'well he's a slaving psychopathic scum' as a response in a dialogue after you freed him when talking to Angela, she just goes "Oh, well, sorry I lied to you mate and sorry that this 'good guy with another side of the story' is even worse than the Patriarch, but you know, I needed him free" So she just admits that she lied to you and tricked you. Great.

She then says she will help you deal with Liberty. Why? Well because she needs to get Ironclad back as the leader of the cyborg psychopaths. To do what, you may ask? Well, to first help her kill the Patriarch and then go to Kansas and kill everything there.
The same person who said Patriarch is a monster because he made a deal with the gangs to leave Colorado Springs and raid elsewhere alone is literally proposing a guy become a leader of a gang that will rape, pillage and kill everything in sight. Just not in Colorado or Arizona, but in Kansas. Lucia Wesson, if you have her in your party at the time, even calls her out on that point, saying it's literally the same as the Patriarch did, but worse. Angela just shrugs it off and ignores that argument.

The main problem is that her plan is just bad. Colorado is held together, as badly as it is, by the Patriarch and the people of Colorado Springs. Now, it's not perfect, nowhere near it, but at least people aren't starving to death and aren't gunned down on the streets. Her great plan to take out the Patriarch and his children literally makes no sense unless she's planning a Ranger takeover from the start (which I'm fairly certain she's not, although I only had 1 playthrough and can't say that for sure).

Let's think about it. There are only 2 possibilities, really.
1) She actually is that stupid and thinks that the marshals, the hundred families and the personal guard of the Patriarch are gonna just lay down their weapons and allow her and her merry band of rеtards to take over (and Ironclad will hold his end of the deal and leave Colorado alone), in which case that helicopter crash must've caused her brain damage in addition to face scars and lost leg.
2) She is a psychopath and realizes that attempting (or even killing) the Patriarch will result in a slaughter in Colorado Springs, with tons of bodies and rivers of blood. And then the gangs will arrive and those bodies will pile up even more and the rivers of blood will turns into seas, but wants to go ahead with it anyway.

Not to mention the fact that she's actually not really a Ranger by the time of Wasteland 3. She went rogue, ignored the commands of the officer back in Arizona and is actually sabotaging your mission (which the general points out when you talk to him over the radio). She's a traitor and the actual reasons for her treason are pretty stupid.

[Roding]

That's the thing about it, the devs want you to to have to chose between two bad things, Angela or a fascist dictator that provides weapons to terrorist gangs and ships his prisoners off to be slaughtered. Those are the two bad endnings.

[3D Master]

But he won't anymore; by the time you're done, you'll have gotten the gangs to exterminate each other, and taken out the remainder yourself.

Do remember, Angela Deth's only reason to want to do this is because the Patriarch not being squeaky clean is a personal insult or soemthing, the Patriarch was forced into making the least bad choices, among a sea of bad choices, a good chunk of them at gunpoint, and all to benefit as many people in Colorado as he can in the middle of a nuclear wasteland.

I don't see anyway that Angela Deth is in any way comparable; she's far worse.

[jack_of_tears]

Originally posted by asda dadas:

i killed both angela and the patriarch and went back to arizona and i got the best ending possible

I doubt it, as I kept both of them alive, stayed working beside the Patriarch, and I got the best ending I can imagine. Everyone is happy, everything goes well, everyone benefits.

As for Angela, yeah, she's really trading one devil for another and I don't agree with her decision, but I think that's due to good writing? If Angela was inarguably the best route to go, if she was the most moral and the most reasonable, it wouldn't make for much of a challenge to decide who to side with. Making her flawed, just like all the other factions, however, makes your choices less certain.

I like the idea that heroes are actually flawed characters in the game, not just 'pretend-flawed' for narrative convenience.

[Roding]

Originally posted by 3D Master:

But he won't anymore; by the time you're done, you'll have gotten the gangs to exterminate each other, and taken out the remainder yourself.

Do remember, Angela Deth's only reason to want to do this is because the Patriarch not being squeaky clean is a personal insult or soemthing, the Patriarch was forced into making the least bad choices, among a sea of bad choices, a good chunk of them at gunpoint, and all to benefit as many people in Colorado as he can in the middle of a nuclear wasteland.

I don't see anyway that Angela Deth is in any way comparable; she's far worse.

It's down to personal taste and opinion really, both are bad, both are using you as a pawn in their game, pick the option you'll sleep better over.

Regarding the gangs, is says in the end "Everyone knew that other gangs would rise...", just in case we though we had made much of a diffrence in that regard.

[darthcuda]

Originally posted by asda dadas:

i killed both angela and the patriarch and went back to arizona and i got the best ending possible

How do you kill them both? i just finished my first playthrough and it seems to me you have to choose 1 to help.

[3D Master]

Originally posted by robert.roding:

Regarding the gangs, is says in the end "Everyone knew that other gangs would rise...", just in case we though we had made much of a diffrence in that regard.

That's nonsense, if you're dilligent enough to take out gangs before they rise, you prevent them from rising.