For whom are 'Weird Science' and 'Sneaky ♥♥♥♥' optimal?

[speedingdeath]

I'm trying to decide on skills for my 4 core rangers, and its difficult enough trying to cover all of the non-combat skills in a way that maximises returns, but similarly, I keep seeing instances of both 'Weird Science' (WS) and 'Sneaky ♥♥♥♥' (SS) seeming like key skills for builds;

Allegedly the best melee armour requires WS, and also having a fast melee character with SS and Mechanics allows them to sneak in and disable some machine hazards.

There are powerful sniper options that require WS (an AOE gun and a high-damage gun, I believe), so I'm curious if these are merely interesting, or competitive with/better than non-WS weapons. Naturally, snipers want SS for the big first hit in the combat often killing something before the fight starts.

Heavies want WS because it increases power of flamethrowers. Heavies want SS because opening with a rocket can clear a fight in one hit, apparently. Is this the true best use of SS, assuming you have a rocketeer in the team?

Fextralife has an SMG build that uses WS; I'm not sure if that's a novelty, or if SMGs have the best energy/flame weapons generally? At least this build doesn't need SS.

I also haven't seen any particular synergy for small guns/leader characters to have either WS or SS, so at least they can skip those skills, if I'm not missing something.

More generally, does a team even benefit from having multiple characters with SS? WS at least seems like it adds damage for just about everyone, but perhaps if a certain class's best weapons/armour are *not* WS gear, then ideally they'd skip the skill and get something else.

Any insight from someone who is aware of what is available late game is appreciated, thanks.

[dolby]

looks like you already have all the info now you only need to pick one can't go wrong with sniper or heavy specialist exp.:)

[BigRockWall]

I dont have the answer. But I believe mechanics is another one you should be looking at in the same manner as WS. I've seen at least 1 gun so far that had mechanics requirement. It was a pistol that repaired machines, so maybe thats all there is weapon wise for mechanics. But I dont know for sure yet.

Really I'd just love to see a list of all the available guns so we can know what skills need to go on different weapon builds to be able to use the unique gear

[NixBoxDone]

Sneaky ♥♥♥♥ goes on whoever you want to do your alpha strike with. I like to use a medium to low range character because that way you can sneak in to disable traps and generators, pick a low hp backline unit of the enemy and gut them to initiate the fight while the rest of the team waits in cover to capitalize on the first turn.
Alternatively you can grab it on your sniper to get the juiciest turn 1 head shot criticals on the bosses.
For whacky Science you want someone with energy weapons, but some of the best melee armor also needs it. I found a helmet that gives +15 % melee damage and 14 armor natively that needs it, for example.
If you're feeling spend-happy, a few points can go on anyone that doesn't automatically carry a second weapon so they can use the various whacky effects like shrinking and brainwave scrambling to disable enemies in a pinch.
If you go that route though, I wouldn't put it on your main DPS units because almost any good DPS will want a physical/energy weapon option so they're not worthless against robits.

[Batailleuse]

to be as thourough as possible

Weird Science buffs both dmg against living(fire/cold) and non living stuff (energy) by up to 30% in the world its a very little used skill to be honest.

now there are weapons and mods that will do any of the above, so basically on a ranged dude, you get a base +60% damage (WS+Awareness maxed) which is a lot.

From there, you can do a Sniper which will secialize in taking out Robots/Mech and still do relatively well vs everything else by giving him an energy sniper (neutron Projector only needs 7 and is arguably one of the best sniper in game) + a Fire or Frost modded one Sniper (havent found any Sniper that had any of those as base damage sadly).

IF you want to take out a target asap you would need SS at 10 (only last perk worth it), its also useful on a single Sniper for having a maxed out Perception check dude in your Team. (there are a few usefull alarm/trips to deactivate on the way but not that many)

Now,

Mecha also adds to vehicule/robot damage by up to 30% (often used skill check)
Survivalist also adds up 30% against animals (but they are rare so its worthless)

Ideally id have a Sniper (mecha + engage Killer) with

Sniper+SS+WS
you may have enough skill to raise some other skill after that if so
pick 4pt+ in mecha
pick 4pts+ in animal (pets are good and scale with owner level)

Make another with (Living things Killer)

Sniper+WS+Toaster(maxed)
you can put mecha/animal also later,

give him also an energy sniper but his main gun should be a FIRE modded sniper, you will get 85% dmg on your fire shot, and whenever you kill something your next shot auto burn.

dont waste pts on other skill tree you wont use them that much (more explaining under)

now what you need is what i call a skill monkey leader,

one dude that MUST be your leader (top left spot on the team) this dude will make the game decide how units scales when you recruit them which means he is the only really really important guy for level is what will make your power throught the game because of added stats/skill checks and potentially better equipments. Charisma is a DUMP stat on anyone else because of that

Skills check are awarded only to the dude perfoming them so basically you want your leader that has 10/10 charisma and an XP perk/quirk to get most Lock/Nerd/Demolition check be done by him

you only really need healing at around 2-3 to start and maxed around 7 (there literally a single 8 check in the game its at the end and its useless) but 7 lets you rest/heal/remove wounds in camp on the map which can be usefull

and leadership to maybe 6 it is? for the demoralize/rouse skills.

You just make 1 or maybe 2 random dude with Barter/Armor/Weaonsmith for the first, and Wilderness 10 on the second (he gives all map access but its done only once after that he is useless), you keep them at the base and take out only when you are going to sell (only sell at HQ) and mods stuff, then put him back in.

Regardig skill raise them only to 8 to begin with never to 10, you can use a book for getting to 9 and a +1 item to get to 10 when needed it will save you so much points in the end, dont waste a book before having 8 its just insane of skill points wasted othewise.

Very few weaopns need more than 8 so unless you need the 10 perk dont bother.

[speedingdeath]

Originally posted by Batailleuse:

to be as thourough as possible

Weird Science buffs both dmg against living(fire/cold) and non living stuff (energy) by up to 30% in the world its a very little used skill to be honest.

now there are weapons and mods that will do any of the above, so basically on a ranged dude, you get a base +60% damage (WS+Awareness maxed) which is a lot.

From there, you can do a Sniper which will secialize in taking out Robots/Mech and still do relatively well vs everything else by giving him an energy sniper (neutron Projector only needs 7 and is arguably one of the best sniper in game) + a Fire or Frost modded one Sniper (havent found any Sniper that had any of those as base damage sadly).

IF you want to take out a target asap you would need SS at 10 (only last perk worth it), its also useful on a single Sniper for having a maxed out Perception check dude in your Team. (there are a few usefull alarm/trips to deactivate on the way but not that many)

Now,

Mecha also adds to vehicule/robot damage by up to 30% (often used skill check)
Survivalist also adds up 30% against animals (but they are rare so its worthless)

Ideally id have a Sniper (mecha + engage Killer) with

Sniper+SS+WS
you may have enough skill to raise some other skill after that if so
pick 4pt+ in mecha
pick 4pts+ in animal (pets are good and scale with owner level)

Make another with (Living things Killer)

Sniper+WS+Toaster(maxed)
you can put mecha/animal also later,

give him also an energy sniper but his main gun should be a FIRE modded sniper, you will get 85% dmg on your fire shot, and whenever you kill something your next shot auto burn.

dont waste pts on other skill tree you wont use them that much (more explaining under)

now what you need is what i call a skill monkey leader,

one dude that MUST be your leader (top left spot on the team) this dude will make the game decide how units scales when you recruit them which means he is the only really really important guy for level is what will make your power throught the game because of added stats/skill checks and potentially better equipments. Charisma is a DUMP stat on anyone else because of that

Skills check are awarded only to the dude perfoming them so basically you want your leader that has 10/10 charisma and an XP perk/quirk to get most Lock/Nerd/Demolition check be done by him

you only really need healing at around 2-3 to start and maxed around 7 (there literally a single 8 check in the game its at the end and its useless) but 7 lets you rest/heal/remove wounds in camp on the map which can be usefull

and leadership to maybe 6 it is? for the demoralize/rouse skills.

You just make 1 or maybe 2 random dude with Barter/Armor/Weaonsmith for the first, and Wilderness 10 on the second (he gives all map access but its done only once after that he is useless), you keep them at the base and take out only when you are going to sell (only sell at HQ) and mods stuff, then put him back in.

Regardig skill raise them only to 8 to begin with never to 10, you can use a book for getting to 9 and a +1 item to get to 10 when needed it will save you so much points in the end, dont waste a book before having 8 its just insane of skill points wasted othewise.

Very few weaopns need more than 8 so unless you need the 10 perk dont bother.

Thank you, this is very helpful.

Are money and experience limited in the game? I was under the impression that there were random encounters that one could use to farm resources/experience if needed. Also, since most regions are scaled to the party, maximising experience doesn't seem absolutely critical, although it would be ideal. If experience is limited, then getting the experience-increasing effects early seems beneficial, and if resources are limited, then getting the perk (I think it's Weapon Modding?) that gives extra ammo seems very useful.

[pryt]

I like WS on a char that gets close into the action. These "Shrink" grenades are just too good to be wasted on someone far away. Makes some fights a cakewalk, after failing them a few times with different tactics and approaches (hard difficulty).

[BigRockWall]

Originally posted by Batailleuse:

to be as thourough as possible

Weird Science buffs both dmg against living(fire/cold) and non living stuff (energy) by up to 30% in the world its a very little used skill to be honest.

now there are weapons and mods that will do any of the above, so basically on a ranged dude, you get a base +60% damage (WS+Awareness maxed) which is a lot.

From there, you can do a Sniper which will secialize in taking out Robots/Mech and still do relatively well vs everything else by giving him an energy sniper (neutron Projector only needs 7 and is arguably one of the best sniper in game) + a Fire or Frost modded one Sniper (havent found any Sniper that had any of those as base damage sadly).

IF you want to take out a target asap you would need SS at 10 (only last perk worth it), its also useful on a single Sniper for having a maxed out Perception check dude in your Team. (there are a few usefull alarm/trips to deactivate on the way but not that many)

Now,

Mecha also adds to vehicule/robot damage by up to 30% (often used skill check)
Survivalist also adds up 30% against animals (but they are rare so its worthless)

Ideally id have a Sniper (mecha + engage Killer) with

Sniper+SS+WS
you may have enough skill to raise some other skill after that if so
pick 4pt+ in mecha
pick 4pts+ in animal (pets are good and scale with owner level)

Make another with (Living things Killer)

Sniper+WS+Toaster(maxed)
you can put mecha/animal also later,

give him also an energy sniper but his main gun should be a FIRE modded sniper, you will get 85% dmg on your fire shot, and whenever you kill something your next shot auto burn.

dont waste pts on other skill tree you wont use them that much (more explaining under)

now what you need is what i call a skill monkey leader,

one dude that MUST be your leader (top left spot on the team) this dude will make the game decide how units scales when you recruit them which means he is the only really really important guy for level is what will make your power throught the game because of added stats/skill checks and potentially better equipments. Charisma is a DUMP stat on anyone else because of that

Skills check are awarded only to the dude perfoming them so basically you want your leader that has 10/10 charisma and an XP perk/quirk to get most Lock/Nerd/Demolition check be done by him

you only really need healing at around 2-3 to start and maxed around 7 (there literally a single 8 check in the game its at the end and its useless) but 7 lets you rest/heal/remove wounds in camp on the map which can be usefull

and leadership to maybe 6 it is? for the demoralize/rouse skills.

You just make 1 or maybe 2 random dude with Barter/Armor/Weaonsmith for the first, and Wilderness 10 on the second (he gives all map access but its done only once after that he is useless), you keep them at the base and take out only when you are going to sell (only sell at HQ) and mods stuff, then put him back in.

Regardig skill raise them only to 8 to begin with never to 10, you can use a book for getting to 9 and a +1 item to get to 10 when needed it will save you so much points in the end, dont waste a book before having 8 its just insane of skill points wasted othewise.

Very few weaopns need more than 8 so unless you need the 10 perk dont bother.

Is CHA a dump stat tho? I thought it was. But. Been hearing people ending game between levels 24-30 range. Level cap is 50. So you waste 10 points in CHA right away on every character. If that means you end the game at level 34-40 then you have made up the point difference from the lost charisma, AND you have 10 more levels of skill points and CON.

I dont know if CHA nets you 10 extra levels for doing the same amount of content throughout the game, but you see general point?

[Scourge]

Maximum Charisma gives you 30% more XP. I found it negligable in the end, the difference was maybe 1 3/4 level compared to my other Rangers.

[NixBoxDone]

Originally posted by BigRockWall:

Originally posted by Batailleuse:

to be as thourough as possible

Weird Science buffs both dmg against living(fire/cold) and non living stuff (energy) by up to 30% in the world its a very little used skill to be honest.

now there are weapons and mods that will do any of the above, so basically on a ranged dude, you get a base +60% damage (WS+Awareness maxed) which is a lot.

From there, you can do a Sniper which will secialize in taking out Robots/Mech and still do relatively well vs everything else by giving him an energy sniper (neutron Projector only needs 7 and is arguably one of the best sniper in game) + a Fire or Frost modded one Sniper (havent found any Sniper that had any of those as base damage sadly).

IF you want to take out a target asap you would need SS at 10 (only last perk worth it), its also useful on a single Sniper for having a maxed out Perception check dude in your Team. (there are a few usefull alarm/trips to deactivate on the way but not that many)

Now,

Mecha also adds to vehicule/robot damage by up to 30% (often used skill check)
Survivalist also adds up 30% against animals (but they are rare so its worthless)

Ideally id have a Sniper (mecha + engage Killer) with

Sniper+SS+WS
you may have enough skill to raise some other skill after that if so
pick 4pt+ in mecha
pick 4pts+ in animal (pets are good and scale with owner level)

Make another with (Living things Killer)

Sniper+WS+Toaster(maxed)
you can put mecha/animal also later,

give him also an energy sniper but his main gun should be a FIRE modded sniper, you will get 85% dmg on your fire shot, and whenever you kill something your next shot auto burn.

dont waste pts on other skill tree you wont use them that much (more explaining under)

now what you need is what i call a skill monkey leader,

one dude that MUST be your leader (top left spot on the team) this dude will make the game decide how units scales when you recruit them which means he is the only really really important guy for level is what will make your power throught the game because of added stats/skill checks and potentially better equipments. Charisma is a DUMP stat on anyone else because of that

Skills check are awarded only to the dude perfoming them so basically you want your leader that has 10/10 charisma and an XP perk/quirk to get most Lock/Nerd/Demolition check be done by him

you only really need healing at around 2-3 to start and maxed around 7 (there literally a single 8 check in the game its at the end and its useless) but 7 lets you rest/heal/remove wounds in camp on the map which can be usefull

and leadership to maybe 6 it is? for the demoralize/rouse skills.

You just make 1 or maybe 2 random dude with Barter/Armor/Weaonsmith for the first, and Wilderness 10 on the second (he gives all map access but its done only once after that he is useless), you keep them at the base and take out only when you are going to sell (only sell at HQ) and mods stuff, then put him back in.

Regardig skill raise them only to 8 to begin with never to 10, you can use a book for getting to 9 and a +1 item to get to 10 when needed it will save you so much points in the end, dont waste a book before having 8 its just insane of skill points wasted othewise.

Very few weaopns need more than 8 so unless you need the 10 perk dont bother.

Is CHA a dump stat tho? I thought it was. But. Been hearing people ending game between levels 24-30 range. Level cap is 50. So you waste 10 points in CHA right away on every character. If that means you end the game at level 34-40 then you have made up the point difference from the lost charisma, AND you have 10 more levels of skill points and CON.

I dont know if CHA nets you 10 extra levels for doing the same amount of content throughout the game, but you see general point?

As far as I know there isn't really a cap to random ambushes, so having more experience per encounter/quest is only really that amazing if you want the highest level possible by only doing what you need/want to do.
If you want levels, there's really nothing stopping you from cruising around looking for trouble.
If the post you quoted is correct, having a leader with charisma and the checks seems to be the best compromise - you only have to dump charisma into one character (which means the others aren't weakened by having so many attributes in something that basically just increases your experience) and the rest get to stat into things that let them get weapons, perks and equipment they need asap.

[BigRockWall]

edit to my last we dont know what the level cap is. someone just said they cheated to get max level and the cap was 35.

regardless, i'm leaning towards agreeing on cha being a dump stat. no reason not to grind xp on the map, if for no other reason than to extend game life. and as such cha is a non leader dump stat for sure.

CHA does build your strike meter faster, and for specific strike abilities like SMG that could actually be useful. is it worth giving up another attribute for, idk

[NixBoxDone]

Tough call. Maybe if you're built around it like pistol can be, but you'd have to calculate I guess. Like, how much extra damage or crit chance would you give up to get a precision shot faster that has a 95 % hit chance almost always, can deal extra damage and have potential extra effects?

I think I'd rather have reliable performance through the whole battle than the odd extra souped up shot though, especially since it seems it carries over between battles anyways (so you can keep em for boss fights and take trash mobs out without).

[Incunabulum]

Sneaky ♥♥♥♥ is for your scout - the guy that goes first to scout out things, disarm traps, and silence alarms.

Its also useful, in general for everyone by allowing you a little more leeway when setting up for attacks.

Weird Science is for anyone you're going to want to use the weird science items. If you don't plan on making use of those it could, realistically, be completely skipped. Its a skill that, IMO, you won't miss if you don't take it.

[speedingdeath]

Originally posted by Incunabulum:

Sneaky ♥♥♥♥ is for your scout - the guy that goes first to scout out things, disarm traps, and silence alarms.

Its also useful, in general for everyone by allowing you a little more leeway when setting up for attacks.

Weird Science is for anyone you're going to want to use the weird science items. If you don't plan on making use of those it could, realistically, be completely skipped. Its a skill that, IMO, you won't miss if you don't take it.

My fear about not taking WS is that I'll find, say, the best-in-slot item for one of my core characters, and be unable to use it because I spent their skill points on some non-combat thing that could have been on anyone else.

[dust.bagwx]

Charisma is OP because precision strikes are OP, mainly head shots

[BigRockWall]

Originally posted by speedingdeath:

Originally posted by Incunabulum:

Sneaky ♥♥♥♥ is for your scout - the guy that goes first to scout out things, disarm traps, and silence alarms.

Its also useful, in general for everyone by allowing you a little more leeway when setting up for attacks.

Weird Science is for anyone you're going to want to use the weird science items. If you don't plan on making use of those it could, realistically, be completely skipped. Its a skill that, IMO, you won't miss if you don't take it.

My fear about not taking WS is that I'll find, say, the best-in-slot item for one of my core characters, and be unable to use it because I spent their skill points on some non-combat thing that could have been on anyone else.

you can at any point go to ranger hq and replace any non story companion squad member. including your main. so if that happens go rebuild around it. the story companions are the only ones your stuck with the builds you choose for them