Some tips for char creation would be nice pls

[Fantoche]

As title. Mind you, I did my homework, checked a few guides and even a wiki for weapons but I'd like some tips, from players who progressed quite a bit already if possible. Basically I know I can create two characters from the start (and played a lot with the system) and that after an intro tutorial you can create two more if you want, plus two scripted team mates.

So basically my question is as follows.. what would be your recommendations for a 4 man party that wouldn't overlap on the (fun) scripted characters?

Also, how useful is a leader in the group? I was thinking of making my main character the leader but how useful is it?

What I'd like to see in my group :

A smarty pants type with charisma (my default character type for Fallout series, especially enjoyable in New Vegas) where I can do the chatting and hacking with some decent weapon (but not the main DPS). Also, the speech is divided in two categories, should one of both be used? That looks like a lot of points for one char.

Some melee type. I thought of having one of the rangers be some brute convict with a wicked blade or something crazy like a chainsaw. Fast and armored most likely

A sneaky sniper type. Always awesome, I guess the sneaky type could be the lockpicker too

Some flamer guy, I thought using the flamer bonuses for a very flamer centric build might be cool, if possible with some technical aptitudes to cover the non combat stuff.


And looking at weapons is a bit confusing, you can access energy weapons in the big guns, small arms AND weird science?

Any advice is welcome!

[Fantoche]

Messaggio originale di SnapSlav:

For me, I think that's a bit inefficient for my tastes, because I weigh the Skills as I distribute them. The active skills need to be leveled up quickly, early on, so stacking too many on the same character will put a strain on their SP needs.

Explosives, Mechanics, and First Aid all on one character who isn't a Skill Monkey doesn't sound workable. At least, that's how I'd look at it.

Sneaky and Lockpick AND Explosives can work really well, but it will be tough for a little while, so ditching one and keeping the other 2 works great!

Weird Science is basically just a "use good gear" Skill, nothing more. It has dialog applications, but other than that it allows you to use items with a Weird Science restriction, or it enhances other weapons. Energy Weapons aren't their own Skill category anymore, they're a "better" kind of EVERY weapon type, and Weird Science makes their damage output better! If you want your experience of trying out techie-type weapons to be relegated to the Small Arms category, go for it! If you have ANY desire to equip someone with a flamethrower, on the other hand, I'd HIGHLY advise stacking Big Guns, Toaster Repair, and Weird Science on one character. That will make for a VERY deadly flamer!

I think you're on the right track! =)

Why not explosives, mechs and medic? Just curious please. I'm fine making my sniper an explosive guy and I wanted the heavy weapon guy to use a flamer (because flamers are sweet).

[SnapSlav]

Messaggio originale di BigRockWall:

Its an extreme example of why, but I can give a pretty solid reason to have Kwan max the sneaky ♥♥♥♥. In a coop game, combat flow goes host > guest >AI. And that flow chart starts with whichever player fires the sneak attack. AKA if guest fires sneak attack, host gets thier first round skipped. In our particular case, Kwan is being controlled by the host. So giiving him the sneaky ♥♥♥♥ and letting him open the fights is a valid option.

Okay, did you fail to understand the point, or did I fail to understand the point that your example illustrated? As far as I can tell, what you said changes NOTHING about my advice or "don't worry about doubling-up on Sneaky Sh*t." There's plenty of SP to go around as long as you're not doubling-up on EVERYTHING, so 2-3 duplicate Skills is not a bad thing, and Sneaky Sh*t has utility function OUTSIDE of its active use.

Messaggio originale di Robineus:

Well my Kwon often does kill people in the opening round, could be that I've given him a really good assault rifle with a suppressor on it and so on, but hey I really gave him sneaky ♥♥♥♥ to have someone to deal with alarms. I still don't think it's bad advice my combat team works perfectly fine following the advice I gave, there are many paths to victory in this but as I also said you do you.

Point of interest you can even play without a sniper and it's just fine. It's one of the things I really like about this game is the host of options all of which are viable. That and the copious amounts of ammo everywhere unlike the last one.

My point was never "always put Sneaky Sh*t on your sniper, and ALWAYS have a sniper". I never said that. I said that if you have a character where Sneaky Sh*t works wonders for their build, even if you plan to have Kwon in your team, you DO NOT need to fret about doubling-up on that. It's only 3 SP.

My very first time had a sniper with Sneaky Sh*t because I liked what I saw, after a while of playing with it I realized I liked how it played, and THEN I discovered that Kwon had the Skill already. I wasn't bothered by this at all, and I've since gone on to recreate my teams many, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany times, and EVERY time I've given Sneaky Sh*t to someone else, despite intended to bring Kwon along!

You can use Kwon as your designated alarm disarm specialist. You can also use another character. It doesn't make a different. It's just 3 SP!!!

Messaggio originale di Fantoche Dreemurr:

Why not explosives, mechs and medic? Just curious please. I'm fine making my sniper an explosive guy and I wanted the heavy weapon guy to use a flamer (because flamers are sweet).

It's just about straining a single character's SP needs. If you want to pass all of the difficulty checks ASAP, certain Skills will require your attention to level them sooner than others. Mechanics, Explosives, and First Aid are ALL Skills which need early leveling. So unless you wanna leave a bunch of checks for later, it's inefficient to stack all 3 on a single character. ALSO there are several instances in which you CANNOT "come back later", so that's not always an option.

[Fantoche]

Wow SnapSlav you're super helpful, since the highest skill check counts, I'll try to spread these among more people, make explosives my sniper then..

[/Uninstall]

Messaggio originale di SnapSlav:

Messaggio originale di BigRockWall:

Its an extreme example of why, but I can give a pretty solid reason to have Kwan max the sneaky ♥♥♥♥. In a coop game, combat flow goes host > guest >AI. And that flow chart starts with whichever player fires the sneak attack. AKA if guest fires sneak attack, host gets thier first round skipped. In our particular case, Kwan is being controlled by the host. So giiving him the sneaky ♥♥♥♥ and letting him open the fights is a valid option.

Okay, did you fail to understand the point, or did I fail to understand the point that your example illustrated? As far as I can tell, what you said changes NOTHING about my advice or "don't worry about doubling-up on Sneaky Sh*t." There's plenty of SP to go around as long as you're not doubling-up on EVERYTHING, so 2-3 duplicate Skills is not a bad thing, and Sneaky Sh*t has utility function OUTSIDE of its active use.

Messaggio originale di Robineus:

Well my Kwon often does kill people in the opening round, could be that I've given him a really good assault rifle with a suppressor on it and so on, but hey I really gave him sneaky ♥♥♥♥ to have someone to deal with alarms. I still don't think it's bad advice my combat team works perfectly fine following the advice I gave, there are many paths to victory in this but as I also said you do you.

Point of interest you can even play without a sniper and it's just fine. It's one of the things I really like about this game is the host of options all of which are viable. That and the copious amounts of ammo everywhere unlike the last one.

My point was never "always put Sneaky Sh*t on your sniper, and ALWAYS have a sniper". I never said that. I said that if you have a character where Sneaky Sh*t works wonders for their build, even if you plan to have Kwon in your team, you DO NOT need to fret about doubling-up on that. It's only 3 SP.

My very first time had a sniper with Sneaky Sh*t because I liked what I saw, after a while of playing with it I realized I liked how it played, and THEN I discovered that Kwon had the Skill already. I wasn't bothered by this at all, and I've since gone on to recreate my teams many, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany times, and EVERY time I've given Sneaky Sh*t to someone else, despite intended to bring Kwon along!

You can use Kwon as your designated alarm disarm specialist. You can also use another character. It doesn't make a different. It's just 3 SP!!!

Messaggio originale di Fantoche Dreemurr:

Why not explosives, mechs and medic? Just curious please. I'm fine making my sniper an explosive guy and I wanted the heavy weapon guy to use a flamer (because flamers are sweet).

It's just about straining a single character's SP needs. If you want to pass all of the difficulty checks ASAP, certain Skills will require your attention to level them sooner than others. Mechanics, Explosives, and First Aid are ALL Skills which need early leveling. So unless you wanna leave a bunch of checks for later, it's inefficient to stack all 3 on a single character. ALSO there are several instances in which you CANNOT "come back later", so that's not always an option.

I may have not illustrated my point fully. The idea that there are infinite SP to go around is false. I do agree that he has only a few SP wasted into the skill if you DONT want to max it out on Kwan. No big loss. But the idea that both Kwan and another should max it out for the rank 10 perk is kinda silly. Weird science is a better skill to be doubling up on due to equipment it unlocks for multiple builds, and the added laser/fire/cold damage boosts.

My point about why Kwan COULD be a good choice to be the sneak attack guy was based on a 2 player game where the host had Kwan and the guest had the sniper. If the sniper fires the sneak attack, host gets his first turn skipped. It can really be boiled down to "the host needs to take the sneak attack shot for combat to flow correctly in MP". So the host needs to have the stealthy ♥♥♥♥ 10 character. It doesn't have to be Kwan, but he's a viable candidate

[Fantoche]

So my new plan is as follows :

1. Leader type
Badass AR guy with a scary doggo
AR, hard ass, animal whisperer and leadership in time

2. Science guy
Small arms, nerd stuff, mechanic, maybe medic later and some weird science

3. Rat faced sniper
snipers, sneaky ♥♥♥♥, lockpick, explosives and maybe animal whisper for the cat

4. Big guns type FLAMER
Big guns, toaster repair, weird science survival

It makes my big gun guy less of a tech and more dedicated to fire in general and toasters

[Fantoche]

For weapon and armor mods, likely raise a scripted NPC for it

[SNUBBIRTH13]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Make a skill monkey as your leader, go extremes (don´t try to make people bards, avarage at everything)

Compliment your team and most important of all... have one with toaster repair, so you can find the Golden Toaster!

Ohh.. "Survival is useless, don´t take it" Focus on what some of the other says, have a sniper with sneaky ♥♥♥♥ and make it a death wish quirk.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2214264877

Disagree on survival, you should at least get it to 6 for most of the escape options esp in harder diffcultys or experimental partys where you struggle with random encounters, the animal damage bonus so your can kill those damn frogs faster before they explode on you, and to cover some dialogue/investigation checks.

[CatNotHuman]

Fextralife on YT has a few optimized builds he walks you through, good stuff

[jokesmanhd]

Guys, has anyone considered putting points into luck? Personally, I found myself "blessed" with free moves (no Action points spent), free firing (again, no AP cost), free reloading (when it comes to sniper rifles and ~6AP cost of reload it depends) and all the rest fun stuff.
I am still configuring the optimal build for me, but I have some ideas, like don't put any points of speed to sniper or don't put awareness on melee and vice versa - max speed on melee and max awareness on sniper.
What about intelligence? It gives a huge chance to crit and the crit itself does tons of dmg.
I don't know exactly why do people spend on CHArisma? Because of special attacks? EXPerience? I don't know, for me it's not like you gain lots of benefits from +30%exp... like eventually the CHArismatic guy'll be like 2lvls higher than the guys without CHA. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Commander Gorda]

Luck is best small arms mostly imo for increase penetration, but its decent for all build. Int is powerful aswell i have between 6 and 10 int on all characters now at lvl 20. High Charisma is for the leadership radius, more experience and faster strike rate is good but i wouldnt have it high on any character except the leader.

[Bruxae]

I got some general tips in my experience having reached around lvl 20-22 on hard mode, but I'd recommend not reading and figuring things out for yourself if you can - the game isn't very hard even without min-maxing so figuring things out as you go is part of the fun.

*A dedicated medic isn't actually necessary, you can use the 50% heals for free and medic packs which will heal you (usually to full) over a duration with just 1 point in first aid. A medic might be fun for the perks and useful but not necessary.

*Skill checks aren't getting tougher because you gain levels, this is good. It means that you don't have to max a skill to get use out of it - if you want to level both conversation perks simultaneously for instance that will work. Most checks for those I've seen are in the 4-6 range.

*Use a different weapon for each character, ammo is scarce. On the topic of weapons, contrary to what I've seen online Brawlers are not useless - mine is my strongest character by far.

*As for stats Charisma is not worth it, strike rate builds quite fast anyway and strikes aren't worth 10 attribute points anyway. I max damage stat first (strength or awareness depending on ranged/melee), get enough AP for one attack and 1-2 spare points to move for ranged, max AP for melee (attacks cost less AP so you get more attacks), ranged weapons typically cost 6 AP meaning base of 5 + 5 bonus still leaves you with just 1 attack unless you are carrying over from the previous round, AP is still good but not a priority for ranged. Speed is worthless. With your primary stat and AP resolved, I max luck next - everyone benefits from penetration and the procs are amazing. Int is your dump stat for more crits after you got everything else you need. Strength for ranged is all or nothing, leave it at 2 points and use the gear without strength requirement or you are going to want to keep improving it because each 2 points the armors get so much better, you're going to hate yourself for sticking with a medium armor when just 2 points could unlock a much better one. Personally my big guns and pistol user have high strength while my sniper has none, she always stay at the back anyway.

*Party composition is whatever you think would be fun, but I'd recommend a sniper. Mine always oneshot one person before starting a battle. I'd also actually recommend a brawler, their damage is quite low but each attack will cost 1 AP, your mobility is out of this world and they are especially great at picking off low health enemies, ressing, building strike and stunning groups.

*As for leader, are you referring to the leadership skill? I don't use it because maxing both Charisma and the Skill itself is too much for what it provides and the range seems too short without high Charisma. If you decide to go with a dedicated medic you could consider it, but i'd rather dump in Int to be honest and just have her deal more damage.

*As for your Flamer guy, Flamethrowers deal low damage but in a massive radius - therefor they aren't very good as a main weapon but excellent in your off-hand to switch for when there's big groups to AoE or with one of the perks you can completely shut down vehicles with it.

*As for skills, I wouldn't want to live without mechanics (for generators mostly, can open some locked doors or turn off turrets), Nerd ♥♥♥♥ (Computers provide a lot of story content and hacking a turret at the start of combat is great fun), Lockpicking so you can grab all the loot. Survival is mostly good for skipping fights on the world map, most Weird ♥♥♥♥ weapons are quirky but not powerful however there is two armor sets I've seen that are really good that uses it. I didn't bother with barter and conversation skills, don't really help much unless you want to avoid battles or play a specific type of character. Sneaky ♥♥♥♥ is only good for the sneak attack damage imo, so I got it on my sniper. (her opening shots crit for 4000 a lot of the time) Anything I'm forgetting is probably not much worth mentioning.. Oh yeah, explosives can be dealt with by shooting them so not a priority.

*Every weapon category can get an energy based weapon and it's also possible to mod a weapon into it. I like to keep them on weapon switch for when something has really high armor, all energy weapons have 99+ penetration. You don't need weird ♥♥♥♥ for general energy weapons, only a few specific named ones.

That's all I got right now.

[talemore]

Messaggio originale di Commander Gorda:

Luck is best small arms mostly imo for increase penetration, but its decent for all build. Int is powerful aswell i have between 6 and 10 int on all characters now at lvl 20. High Charisma is for the leadership radius, more experience and faster strike rate is good but i wouldnt have it high on any character except the leader.

I've found INT to be better for machineguns, luck better for pistols, sniper rifles but luck can be used for any crit build. The increase of penetration given by luck isn't much if you look at it that INT increase skill points to increase the accuracy and critical hits are going to simulate a penetration while penetration in luck is for every time you don't gain a critical hit and the chances are 10% vs 25% and you won't gain any multiplier unless it's a mega critical hit and still, the amount of penetration points maybe not good enough for small arms and machinepistols. So even if a sniper rifle won't gain as much from luck the chances to gain a luck based crit is 10% which isn't much for a loss on a gun who still gain a lot of damage when it critical hit. The machinegun on other hand will only gain 1/10 of damage potential from luck compared to a sniper rifle with luck, with INT 1/4 bullets will be a critical hit

[jokesmanhd]

Finally, I've managed to create an almost-ready team build:
1) Brawler - Coordination(max firstly), luck, intelligence/speed both 1 by 1.
Skills: brawling, Lockpicking, animals (maybe mech lvl 4 becausr of turreys and beacons). Sex machine background and 2 pump chump.

2) auto submachine - circus freak and sex machine for speed
Coordination, intelligence, luck and the last is strength for armor.
Skills: automatic weapons, mechanics, weird science for energy and fire mods on submachine gun.

3) pustols and shotgun - sex maxhine and psycho killer (mass kill brings multiplier by 3*x)
Coord, int, luck, strength
Small guns (although shotgun is not that small lol)), computers, (animals? Survival?)

4) heavy gunner with rockets - fire, heavy machine gun, rockets
Coordination and awareness, intelligence, strength (if enough points).
Bombs, Sneaky ♥♥♥♥♥, heavy weapons, (7 lvl talent of small guns may provide a free shot after reload (rocket reloads each time by the way), but will we have enough points? Weird science or toasters for flamer. This guy will replace the sniper.
Drunk man (+50% alcohol) and sex machine.
So, this drunk guy fires a rocket from invisibility, it deals +50%dmg as it's drunk, +200% dmg as from sneak, + guaranteed crit (talent from bombs), +enhanced crit from intelligence = devastation.

2 NPC companions share mods (weapon/armor), someone takes barter, some takes toasters. Besides, Kwon has leadership as well as toaster repair and mod armor, and Daisy has weapon mod and barter.

Absolutely everyone needs 1 point on medicine on order to use medpacs.

[Bastila Shan]

Messaggio originale di jokesmanhd:

Finally, I've managed to create an almost-ready team build:
1) Brawler - Coordination(max firstly), luck, intelligence/speed both 1 by 1.
Skills: brawling, Lockpicking, animals (maybe mech lvl 4 becausr of turreys and beacons). Sex machine background and 2 pump chump.

2) auto submachine - circus freak and sex machine for speed
Coordination, intelligence, luck and the last is strength for armor.
Skills: automatic weapons, mechanics, weird science for energy and fire mods on submachine gun.

3) pustols and shotgun - sex maxhine and psycho killer (mass kill brings multiplier by 3*x)
Coord, int, luck, strength
Small guns (although shotgun is not that small lol)), computers, (animals? Survival?)

4) heavy gunner with rockets - fire, heavy machine gun, rockets
Coordination and awareness, intelligence, strength (if enough points).
Bombs, Sneaky ♥♥♥♥♥, heavy weapons, (7 lvl talent of small guns may provide a free shot after reload (rocket reloads each time by the way), but will we have enough points? Weird science or toasters for flamer. This guy will replace the sniper.
Drunk man (+50% alcohol) and sex machine.
So, this drunk guy fires a rocket from invisibility, it deals +50%dmg as it's drunk, +200% dmg as from sneak, + guaranteed crit (talent from bombs), +enhanced crit from intelligence = devastation.

2 NPC companions share mods (weapon/armor), someone takes barter, some takes toasters. Besides, Kwon has leadership as well as toaster repair and mod armor, and Daisy has weapon mod and barter.

Absolutely everyone needs 1 point on medicine on order to use medpacs.

Wouldn’t strength be more or equally as important as coordination for brawler?

[jokesmanhd]

No, strength affects only melee combat (knives and blunt weapons), brawling is more like agility. Even the tips in the description of these skills tell that.

It may only affect the kind of armor the brawler would wear, I compensate that with speed (dodging) and not tanking straightforward, some tactics of killing weak, running and stunning, making crits, lots of em