single-player story campaign?

[kinbard603]

Does a "single-player story campaign" mean that it's a linear game, or is that the new term for sandbox?

[Sloul Des Tucs]

Go play Age of Wonders 1 campaign, and come back to give us the answer you found.

[kinbard603]

Couldn't just give me a straight answer, huh? Pathetic.

Originally posted by Sloul:

Go play Age of Wonders 1 campaign, and come back to give us the answer you found.

[Hieronymous]

I believe there will be 3 linear singleplayer campaigns on release - Vanguard, Kir'ko, and Amazons - but like pretty much every other AOW game there will also be random map skirmishes and whatnot.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Both. The campaign will be more sandbox-like but probably still be fairly linear. There will be a separate random-map sandbox mode.

Previous games in the series had campaign mode (linked hand-crafted maps with a story, single player only. The maps themselves were fairly similar to the sandbox mode), one off scenario's (hand-made maps, sometimes with a story or scripted stuff, also plenty of player-made ones) and the random map generator. (Sandbox mode, variety of settings.)

The latter two could be played in multiplayer. Random map sandbox mode was the biggest focus by far of the last game. (Age of Wonders III, that is.)

This game, reportedly, will be fairly similar, except the single-player campaign will also have some random elements in it. The devs have said it will will be fairly similar to Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic, which had 1 story taking place over multiple smaller "campaigns" that focussed on one race.

This time, the campaign will allow you to customise your leader to some extent, and the maps will feature more random elements. (Maybe be partially randomly generated? I don't know.) This should make the campaigns less linear and more replayable.

But the main focus will probably still be sandbox mode, and the multiplayer will probably still be focussed on that.

Edited because I managed to give the complete wrong impression. Sorry. :-)

[kinbard603]

Thank you Iguana. I appreciate your thorough reply! It's disappointing to hear that sandbox will probably not be available in single player.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Originally posted by kinbard603:

Thank you Iguana. I appreciate your thorough reply! It's disappointing to hear that sandbox will probably not be available in single player.

Sorry, I did not mean to give that impression.

Sandbox/random map mode WILL be available in single player! I fully expect to spend 90% of my time there. :-)

Multiplayer will mostly be sandbox game, but that doesn't mean it's ONLY for multiplayer. And the campaign will be more sandbox like, but there still will be a fully open random map mode. (And if there's not, I'll buy a hat just so I can eat it.)

[General Plastro]

Well, this isn't good, I worry that the campaign won't be as cool as the previous ones. Sandboxing isn't always for the best in the single player part of the game.

I hope the protagonists in the campaign are proper ones, not just a generic player avatar as well.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Originally posted by General Plastro:

Well, this isn't good, I worry that the campaign won't be as cool as the previous ones. Sandboxing isn't always for the best in the single player part of the game.

Honestly, I and many others considered the AoW3 campaigns to be the weakest part of the original release. The stories were disjointed and not that well done. Many people were also frustrated by the difficulty spikes.

The expansion campaigns were MUCH better though, with interesting maps and challenges, and better stories. They were even harder, but in a good way. So I am cautiously optimistic about Planetfall campaigns.

We'll see how much randomness there will be, the devs haven't talked about it much so far. Supposedly it's a mix: there will be pre-made sectors that are campaign based, so if you have to conquer Citadel X it will always be on the map, as will the mountain pass that protects it, and the three outlying forts. But to the west there may be a desert one time and an oasis the next.

We'll see how it works out.

I hope the protagonists in the campaign are proper ones, not just a generic player avatar as well.

They are proper characters with names and backstory. Like Jack Gelder is the protagonist of the Vanguard faction.

But the player can customise them like you can custom leaders. So your Jack Gelder might have a mustache and sunglasses (like the Special Edition cover) or he might not. (like the normal edition cover.) And you could specialise him with sniper rifles, or have him ride a motorbike, or have him get a science bonus.

Compare it to a game like Witcher 3, where you always play Geralt of Rivia, but you can decide whether he focusses on swordfighting or alchemy, and what his hair and clothes look like.

[General Plastro]

Originally posted by Iguana-on-a-stick:

text

When a developer talks about "sandbox" and "randomization", the lurking fear of having generic skirmish maps being used in place of proper well crafted maps in single player always lurks in my mind...

I think i will never forget how bad Emperor: Battle for Dune was due to them going for the "generic" skirmish map approach.

As for the protagonists, thank god they exist and you can just customize their looks, i was afraid they would go and make the entire thing utterly generic.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Originally posted by General Plastro:

When a developer talks about "sandbox" and "randomization", the lurking fear of having generic skirmish maps being used in place of proper well crafted maps in single player always lurks in my mind...

I kind of agree.

The AoW3 random map generator was pretty great, and I spent the vast majority of my time playing it. But maps like "Resurrection" (in the Eternal Lords campaign) or "Family Feuds" (in Golden Realms) are a level beyond that, and cannot be randomised. Sure, when replaying them you'll know where to find all the little secrets and alternate paths you can take, but I don't see how those could be on a randomly generated map in the first place.

Still, there are other campaign maps that would have been fine with some more randomised placement of cities or opponents or whatnot. And some things already WERE random in those campaigns, like the guards of individual non-story related treasure sites. One game you fight a giant serpent, the next an eldritch horror.

So it depends on what the balance between the random and the hand-crafted content is. I'll wait and see what the result is like.

If Planetfall's focus on deeper diplomacy, empire building, races instead of classes, and a different campaign structure demonstrate one thing, it is that Triumph is pretty wiling to listen if enough people say they don't like something, (Since all those things address the most common complaints about AoW3) so if it doesn't work out I expect a return to form for the next game.

[BBB]

fwiw, the map generator in aow3 was amazing.

From what we know, the campaign will have branching choices and consequences, e.g. destroy this planet unlocks mission x and blocks off mission y.

Rescue it does the inverse.

[General Plastro]

Originally posted by BBB:

fwiw, the map generator in aow3 was amazing.

From what we know, the campaign will have branching choices and consequences, e.g. destroy this planet unlocks mission x and blocks off mission y.

Rescue it does the inverse.

I dont mind map generators and all... as long as the Single Player game doesnt devolve into a series of random generated map battles.

Imagine if Age of Empire's single player was like that (or hell... lets go close to home, imagine if previous AoW games were like that).

As for multiplayer, then i am all for randomization :D

[kinbard603]

I guess I don't understand the dislike of random maps/sandbox. Without them, there is little or no replayability. Just one and done. Certainly not worth $50.