Commander cration perk tier list?

[Kanjejou]

I would like your adivce on the commander perks and little info that are not told when you pick them.

I list stuff in A(excellent and maybe broken) B(good) C(meh) D (bad)

BACKGROUND

None tier D come on you really need your point somewhere else to not take any background?

Veteran tier B the 3 starting level allow to customise your commander and +15% exp help all your heroes and units to get their bonuses sooner. It's good and cheap

Skilled diplomat C(in full MP) B if their is AI and no teams, the +300 diplomacy allow to make some mistakes be aggressiv and not get instantly raped by all the AI factions, influence cost reduction is nice but too limited... it doesn't reduce dwelling price...

Martial tradition: A exceptionnaly good getting your guns and unit ealier help a ton and having a turbo heroes that can play twice is icing on the cake

Merchant scion: C it look very good but to really get the most of it you need to go influence and the research reduction is not that high. still good but you will suffer vs other picks.

Star union scholar: B even if you don't want to invest too much in secret tech(even though you should. the bonus on pick up give you a great early game.

Covert operativ: D? Seriously its a mixed bag it allow to rush covert operation and doctrines the first are ... not really usefull the second are super good...the +2 in attack and def for covert is nice but tactical don't use them strategical mostly don't use them and doctrine don't use them.

its truly if you want to go the sabotage and syphoning style... which isn't that good unfortunately...
if you could easily get info on ennemies throught covert I would rank it higher maybe even B, another problem is that you will have to use your doctrine to buff and reduce the price of covert.

a price reduction on covert operation whatever their type (tactical strategical or doctrine) would make it more interesting...or maybe a +2 in strategical/tactical operation points?


COLONY SUPPLEMENT

Nothing: A or B well you go cheap you get nothing but since most colony supplement aren't that good...

2free tech B or C: usually good but avoid it if you take very specific maps like no water no montain forest ect... becasue you can get those tech and it will be a wasted perk...its very RNG

300credits: C its nice to build unit or rush a building but seriously underwheming most of the time...

Military detachment: C sound nice but those extra/stro,nger units will cripple your early game economy...except on very populated maps it snot that great...

extra colonist B(maybe A) 2extra colonist and the first happiness building is very good but yo really make it good you have to grab land fast which can be hard. its an economical choice and you will have to capitalise on it.



COMMANDER EQUIPEMENT AND SKILLS

Nothing:C well you go cheap you get nothing, i woudl not advise people to do that your commande rneed exp to get better and starting with a very weak one doesn't help...

Faction close combat weapon: B or D, depending on your faction it can be good or totaly unfit kirko assembly or syndicate why not but for other...vitality and close combat expert is nice(4points)

Faction ranged B, always good nothing to say "steady aim" and "ranged expert" aren't much points but it help a lot.

secret weapon ranged: A usually the best choice, secret tech guns are stronger than basic ones but you tell everyone what is you secret tech.

Ranged sharp shooter C( or B) the sniper are good the crit+damage is nice but early on your commander will probably go in ther fray to tank for your army ...

Pilot faction type: B or A depending on the vehicule it can go from good to great. for exemple its a B for vanguard or amazone they don't really require a short ranged flanker early on... but its a A for syndicat assembly or dvar that get a very good early damage dealer or overwatcher early. the pilot+vitality1+2 is worth 11points which is nice too.

Pilot APC: A for faction or secret tech with firearm/mecanical D for other. you have to build around the apc to make it usefull, its a support unit with light armor(4point like most bikes and t2 vehicules) but a beefy hp pool, it get two buff/skill both 3 AP summon repair drone(last 4 turn regen 30hp) which is super good and an army accuracy+15% and moral buff, it can also move a free hex everyturn contrary to most large units. I enjoy it a lot but without good vehicules/firearm upgrade it fall out of usefullnes later on...
NOTE: taking this perk allow to buy unlimited supply of APC for your heroes, very funny to create apc commanded armies with vanguard or Dvar.


Vices:

Nothing: B not a bad choice no bonus no maluses...

Cruel: A combined with martial background you get a murder machine, the -4 happiness is only annoying if you play tall...

Kleptomaniac C or D: sound good but he randomness of the item hurt badly and -10 energy hurt plenty early on too... fun for fluff but i avoid it.


Party animal: B or C since production is rarely a problem except if you never make production centers, the 100morla sound weak but its not uncommon to get other +100moral allowing you an easy good moral buff army wide...

Stuborn: A or B if you end up, against lots of debuff dot and CC its a golden perk but the -10% science hurt qquite alot until you make a science center...

Decadent: B its good and food isn't a problem even early on...most faction get food bonuses doctrine early +10hp^isn't much but its more for getting 2 extra point than for buffing the commander...


tell me if you have more stuff to add and tell me what you think about it.

[redeyedraven]

To me, most of the perks are trash-tier.

The ones that give you loadouts? Meh, there are so many other ways to get good items and level up your skills, and the special loadout for secret tech can easily be acquired with random heroes later or unlocked with research, same with the vehicle loadout except for the APC, which is silly as it can't always be replaced, making it a WASTE of two points.


The only perks really worth a damn IMO are the background-ones, as they STAY useful throughout the entire game. Pick the right one for the focus and you have your A-tier perk.
Everything else literally just boosts your early game and is E- or trash-tier.

[Morvana]

Originally posted by redeyedraven:

To me, most of the perks are trash-tier.

The ones that give you loadouts? Meh, there are so many other ways to get good items and level up your skills, and the special loadout for secret tech can easily be acquired with random heroes later or unlocked with research, same with the vehicle loadout except for the APC, which is silly as it can't always be replaced, making it a WASTE of two points.


The only perks really worth a damn IMO are the background-ones, as they STAY useful throughout the entire game. Pick the right one for the focus and you have your A-tier perk.
Everything else literally just boosts your early game and is E- or trash-tier.

You forget that the snowball effect is HUGE in this game. Having a good start is realy important, and if you rush or are rushed by an oponent having good perks can make the difference between victory or defeat.

I disgree on a few things:

-Covert operativ: can be amazing if you play celestial, because it give a huge boost for your op to take the good relation from other players.(when evryone only have 1 or 3 defense against op, having the +2 is huge) If you rush it, you can make the OP between turn 15 and 20 (on normal speed), nobody is ready to fight operations this early... You will destroy their relations, it can even put them at war !
Even mid game, having +2 for operations can be quite usefull.


-For equipments I usually go all out with a vehicule or nothing (exept for a few secret techs with amazing weapons), because the base weapons are already realy good and I dont think that 4 competence points worth 1 perk point.

-Kleptomaniac is good if you need 1 point, because 10 energy per turn is almost nothing compared to cruel cost (100 on the first 10 turn, after that you don't even care...), cruel do -4 hapiness, representing two people in each city who need to work to compensate it. Two people who could work for energy= 10 energy lost/city.

But cruel can be good for very offensive lords.




PS: APC is AAA for manual combats against AI, if you don't make a HUGE mistake, nobody die early game, and it's still very good after.

For auto combat it's terrible, because the AI don't know how to use it. (buff to early, drone to late, the APC will run away....)

[enricofermi2]

I disagree that kleptomaniac is weak. In fact I consider it the best negative. Unlike other traits it has a static cost, so later it matters less and less. The 10% reduction only grows. It's not an ignsificant amount of energy but I still think it's better than the scaling penalties.

[Sinsling]

Vehicle starts also give a lot of almost free skill points.

[Morvana]

Originally posted by enricofermi2:

I disagree that kleptomaniac is weak. In fact I consider it the best negative. Unlike other traits it has a static cost, so later it matters less and less. The 10% reduction only grows. It's not an ignsificant amount of energy but I still think it's better than the scaling penalties.

It depend, on the first 20 turns -10 energy result in a loss of 200 energy. Or at the start it can be huge.

So if you want to expand realy fast or if you play on small maps 10% reduction can be better.

[redeyedraven]

Originally posted by Morvana:

I disgree on a few things:

-Covert operativ: can be amazing if you play celestial, because it give a huge boost for your op to take the good relation from other players.(when evryone only have 1 or 3 defense against op, having the +2 is huge) If you rush it, you can make the OP between turn 15 and 20 (on normal speed), nobody is ready to fight operations this early... You will destroy their relations, it can even put them at war !
Even mid game, having +2 for operations can be quite usefull.

If you think we disagree there you did not read my entire post. I wrote that my personal A-tier are the background-perks, and Covert Operative IS one of those.

All the perks aside from the background-ones just don't stay relevant throughout all of the game, so IMO they're not worth the points spent.

[melkathi]

I love Extra Colonists, as that can allow you to expand to a second sector as fast as turn 2.

[Climhazzard]

My ideal starting hero is something like martial tradition + extra colonists + stubborn + whatever. I especially like stubborn on a Dvar hero. Bulwark with martial tradition just shreds, and by like level 4 or 5 you can give your whole army +4 status resists, +2 damage resist while in cover, and +1 armor.

[Emperor Fooble]

The weapon perks are all really useful just because they save your commander quite a few skill points. Vehicle start alone saves him 11 skill points.
That is very significant, and doubly so if you are playing a faction (such as Vanguard or Syndicate) that have amazing vehicles to mount your character in.
And the APC is a really solid unit if you manual battle, as mentioned by earlier posters.
Those points being freed up helps your commander get far stronger, quicker, to beat down AI mobs and fight harder against a human opponent in any early game skirmish.

Most of the starter picks have their own uses. Starting with stolen data pads is a good one, as it saves (without pickups) 8 turns of early research, and if you get really lucky it can net you a tier II tech which can save a lot of time.
Either option can help dramatically to achieve one of the goals before any other player, and those rewards can help the snowball.

Extra troops is arguably one of the worst picks, but if you are auto battling its fantastic. The power power you can stack, quicker, the faster you can clear neutrals.

Starting with extra colonists AND a recreation dome is a huge boon. You colonize a sector on turn two. So you pick which one you want, clear the creeps and it's yours. So not only do you get extra resources out of that colonist for almost the entire game (until the city hits max population), you get a sectors resources a couple of turns earlier.
You will get a happiness event before anyone else who didn't pick this boost. Dont scoff at double energy to power tactical operations, research to get ahead on tech, production for extra troops or food for more people to get more of everything.
And by starting with a happiness house aka recreation dome, it gives you far more freedom on the tech tree.
As it is, frontier structures is, almost any and every game, the #1 first research. If you already have a dome, the other society options open up.

I take kleptomaniac nearly every time, 10 energy a turn is nothing. I'd almost pay that just to start with a random mod, you can get some amazing mods if your lucky.

As for the background starts, they are ALL game changing.

Veteran + a weapon/vehicle skill super powers your commander, and +15% xp on everything is a monstrous boon.

Getting a 15% reduction on the entire secret tech tree is again, a major game changer. Combine that with assembly doctrines and go hard at research and you will be kicking goals.

Martial discipline is pretty obvious. 25% reduction for weapons tech is delicious, and the extra turns out of your commander will repeatedly swing battles.

Getting a dwelling purchase discount is a hidden overachiever. Think about how hard it stacks with good reputation and celestian bonuses. You can pump out tier IV units every three turns....for free.