Silencers

[Kirk]

Hey guys,
Recently found that all silencers have durability.
For craftable on knee that is realistic,but not for the manufactured.
To meltdown silencer you have to fire 300 rounds at once.

[Copy & Cat]

We have been recieving lots of feedback on human enemies, so we have lot to dig through, but let's try to keep on the topic of silencers okay?

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Cade Kyrovan:

On topic, please don't try to focus arguments of "realism" on a video game. Balance (and fun) trump realism on any game that isn't a sim. It is the way it is for balance purposes. More in-depth reasons have already been stated.

Oh yeah, there is a lot realism in spamming LMB sitting on car roof.
Robert Kirkman, here i am!

Originally posted by Draza:

How else would you encourage gun usage only as a last resort due to noise?

Silencer in this game is not better solution that even "cat silecer" in Postal
Silencer can meldown with time, and shots just will be louder.

[Nowa]

If this is melee focused then why is the melee so simple and dull compared to Dying Light?

[Gisborne]

Supressor. Silencers are a made up thing that dont exist lol. A gun is only slightly less loud with a Suppressor on it to. non of this hollywood pew pew noise.

[SlenderSpoon]

Originally posted by Kirk:

This silencer durability limitation is not balance, its not real, its an imperfection

man you some kind of stupid? its a game mate

[The United States of America]

I really expected better.

Suppressors are almost impossible to destory using Semi-Auto. OP Is right it takes 300 rounds or so in a burst to melt one down. A suppressor reduces muzzle flash and the sound intensity of a firearm when DISCHARGED. A suppressor is only half the job, to really have "stealthy" firearms you need to have subsonic ammo. Subsonic ammo is what should replace suppressor durability. At the beginning of a level you get a full magazine + 1 of subsonic ammo.


Using a firearm with a can but without subsonic ammo will still have it's benefits but they would be significantly reduced. A firearm with a suppressor is still distinctly audible and walkers would/should be alerted if they are within a 50-100 meter area if open air. If you're using super-sonic which is the bulk of modern cartridges then you'll still have the loud sonic-booms the bullets create. This will still draw walkers and make the noise level higher, though it should be at a reduced rate.

Self loading firearms are much louder than firearms with a static action so that could also play a part in gameplay. Many older firearms with slower projecticles would be inherently subsonic such as the .45ACP. For balance you give the weapon a lower pickup rate.
Commercially made suppressors should also be incredibly rare as they are a rarity today in America. Seeing how the game takes place in DC they would be even more rare as you're not allowed to own firearms in DC unless they were grandfathered in from before 1976.

I understand melee is the focus of the game but having reliable REALISTIC firearms won't take away from that, right now the system is far to gamey and really it's quite sad. It's shows a lack of knowledge or at least it makes it look that way. I always valued Overkill for getting weapons right or at least close enough in most cases but this is a joke. If you guys have been to the range you would know that most modern firearms are not hearing safe without subsonic ammo and a suppressor. Even then some firearms are still not hearing safe. If something isn't hearing safe that means it should draw attention and probably will. I just find this very lazy and I hope it changes it doesn't have to a system like this but jesus it has to change in some way.

[aarmosher]

realistic?
you are hoping realism from a zombie game? ok, tell me when you ever encounter a 'real' zombie. lol

about silencers, the balancing is more crucial for a game rather than such thing as realism. kind of understand, since if the silencer has 300usage, that would last the whole level. IF they do that, they will balance it from other angle, ie. less ammo so you wont just storm through a level using silenced gun.
i'd take less durability silencer than far less ammo. thx

[Copy & Cat]

if we truly made silencers last as long, we would also be making them single use itens that would break after they got used up, that would generate a lot of frustation to people since that would mean being stuck without a silenced weapon or have to grind even more to keep an stock wich would definetly not make people happy

[Gisborne]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welrod

The British made the only truly silent pistol in WW2 and it only lasted a few shots before the rings wore out and needed replacing.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by SlenderSpoon:

Originally posted by Kirk:

This silencer durability limitation is not balance, its not real, its an imperfection

man you some kind of stupid? its a game mate

Don't be rude mate.
Everyone telling that this is melee orientated game. Dying Light splitting on this.
Stealth? Pfff.
Gore? Pffff.

So what is this game is all about? Grind? No realism, no melee, no shooting, no stealth.

Originally posted by AarMose:

since if the silencer has 300usage, that would last the whole level.

Unfortunately mate, you wont find such amount of ammo on any map except camp.

Originally posted by Pumpkin Mode:

if we truly made silencers last as long, we would also be making them single use itens that would break after they got used up, that would generate a lot of frustation to people since that would mean being stuck without a silenced weapon or have to grind even more to keep an stock wich would definetly not make people happy

Doesn't make any sense, as a moder you can propose to patch payday with such kind of great idea.

[Draza]

Originally posted by Kirk:

Originally posted by SlenderSpoon:

man you some kind of stupid? its a game mate

Don't be rude mate.
Everyone telling that this is melee orientated game. Dying Light splitting on this.
Stealth? Pfff.
Gore? Pffff.

So what is this game is all about? Grind? No realism, no melee, no shooting, no stealth.

That the melee system sucks doesn't change that the game is melee focused.

[Copy & Cat]

Originally posted by Kirk:

Originally posted by SlenderSpoon:

man you some kind of stupid? its a game mate

Don't be rude mate.
Everyone telling that this is melee orientated game. Dying Light splitting on this.
Stealth? Pfff.
Gore? Pffff.

So what is this game is all about? Grind? No realism, no melee, no shooting, no stealth.

Originally posted by AarMose:

since if the silencer has 300usage, that would last the whole level.

Unfortunately mate, you wont find such amount of ammo on any map except camp.

Originally posted by Pumpkin Mode:

if we truly made silencers last as long, we would also be making them single use itens that would break after they got used up, that would generate a lot of frustation to people since that would mean being stuck without a silenced weapon or have to grind even more to keep an stock wich would definetly not make people happy

Doesn't make any sense, as a moder you can propose to patch payday with such kind of great idea.

You cant defend having realistic supressors and wanting them to magically fix themselves between missions, a truly realistic system would make scavange for more than one, have you scavange subsonic ammo, needing weapons with threaded barrels to fit them, enforce more cleaning on the guns due gas residue staying around the barrel longer and many other problems.

This game isnt trying to sell itself as realistic or as sim, since its own scenario is that of a highly successful comic, so please keep in mind that breaks from reality are needed in every game due design (fun and balance) or limitations from software (simulators)

[Ostinato]

Originally posted by The United States of America.:

I really expected better.

Suppressors are almost impossible to destory using Semi-Auto. OP Is right it takes 300 rounds or so in a burst to melt one down. A suppressor reduces muzzle flash and the sound intensity of a firearm when DISCHARGED. A suppressor is only half the job, to really have "stealthy" firearms you need to have subsonic ammo. Subsonic ammo is what should replace suppressor durability. At the beginning of a level you get a full magazine + 1 of subsonic ammo.


Using a firearm with a can but without subsonic ammo will still have it's benefits but they would be significantly reduced. A firearm with a suppressor is still distinctly audible and walkers would/should be alerted if they are within a 50-100 meter area if open air. If you're using super-sonic which is the bulk of modern cartridges then you'll still have the loud sonic-booms the bullets create. This will still draw walkers and make the noise level higher, though it should be at a reduced rate.

Self loading firearms are much louder than firearms with a static action so that could also play a part in gameplay. Many older firearms with slower projecticles would be inherently subsonic such as the .45ACP. For balance you give the weapon a lower pickup rate.
Commercially made suppressors should also be incredibly rare as they are a rarity today in America. Seeing how the game takes place in DC they would be even more rare as you're not allowed to own firearms in DC unless they were grandfathered in from before 1976.

I understand melee is the focus of the game but having reliable REALISTIC firearms won't take away from that, right now the system is far to gamey and really it's quite sad. It's shows a lack of knowledge or at least it makes it look that way. I always valued Overkill for getting weapons right or at least close enough in most cases but this is a joke. If you guys have been to the range you would know that most modern firearms are not hearing safe without subsonic ammo and a suppressor. Even then some firearms are still not hearing safe. If something isn't hearing safe that means it should draw attention and probably will. I just find this very lazy and I hope it changes it doesn't have to a system like this but jesus it has to change in some way.

Is it the detonation or the sound speed noise that we hear when a weapon fires ? (or both ?)

[The United States of America]

A suppressor has multiple replaceable parts, most suppressors use a baffle system that can be replaced if you have a baffle strike.

Originally posted by Trevor Ochmonek:

Is it the detonation or the sound speed noise that we hear when a weapon fires ? (or both ?)

You hear both- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdzdXExRrSM


also - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SrM_OrT-8Q - the range of this fire is unknown, calliber is probably an intermediate cartridge- Huge difference compared to the .308 rifle cartridge. I'd say by the time the bullets could of hit the soldier they were already subsonic and that's why they are so quiet.




Subsonic ammo should be the replacement for durability it serves the same purpose it just lets you keep your suppressor and prevents people who know guns from raging. Suppressors are useless if you're using supersonic ammo as posted above. Suppressors should also help with stability and not negativly effect the firearm as it's putting more weight onto your barrel which makes the firearm more stable but hey if we had subsonic ammo I'd wouldn't care as much. [Fun fact], using a suppressor raises the velocity of the projectile shot through it so in game term that means more damage not less.

I really don't understand the opposition to permanent suppressors, there is no logical reason for it. A firearm using Super-Sonic Ammo with a suppressor is not hearing safe at all. Which means everyone including the zombies can hear it clearly, it wouldn't take away from the game it would add to it by adding subsonic / supersonic ammo. If worked in correctly it wouldn't hurt gameplay at all it wouldn't change balance at all- Actually that's a lie I presume the really high quality attachments would last way longer than having to rely on subsonic ammo but like said before this game is about melee. Being able to switch between subsonic and supersonic would function the same as taking you can off or on with the hotkey. Also why not have a permanent debuff to your weapon for using a suppressor like we already have but if it didn't break and you ran out of subsonic ammo at least it's a slight trade off and causes a bit less noise.

Suppressors right now are pretty much useless I'd rather just use a crossbow as a gramps player. I can make the same shots and I don't have to worry about a can breaking on me or the .308 drawing every walker to me with that LOUD loudness. The crossbow provides the same functions of a firearm but has no sound and never breaks and you even get ammo pickups. With all the negative effects that a suppressor does put on your firearm you might as well have a compensator and have a permanent boost to stats and deal with the noise as you rarely use firearms anyway and it doesn't make that big of a difference.


Suppressors need buffed. Overkill please research your ♥♥♥♥ it makes for more dynamic and complex gameplay that is most importantly more fun.

[Redrick]

Originally posted by The United States of America.:

Suppressors need buffed. Overkill please research your ♥♥♥♥ it makes for more dynamic and complex gameplay that is most importantly more fun.

No.
We have the Defense for dynamic shooting.