State of the game?

[Red]

Hi, I've never played this game and I've heard the DX version is, uh, not good. So after reading some documentation, I'd like to ask some questions to see if it is now possible to play in optimal conditions, or close enough.

- How accurate to the original Dreamcast release is the Dreamcast restoration mode in Better SADX?
- What mods are necessary besides Better SADX? I think stuff like higher quality FMVs is not included out of the box, that's why I'm asking.
- What is still NOT fixed? I've read GameCube water rendering is not as much of a lost cause as previously thought but still unimplemented (but it's okay), but was the water tint change restored at least? The Dreamcast Conversion mod seems to fix the underwater screen tint.
- What is different from the original Dreamcast game? I think I've read something about Chao minigames and animations being different.
- Out of curiosity, just how bad are DX's gameplay and level design compared to the original? I'm not even talking about graphics here, just overall gameplay.
- If I eventually get to SA2B, what mods will I need to play in the best conditions? Last I checked there wasn't any "all-in-one" mod for it, so I expect having to install several mods.

Bonus points if you can also answer my question about the state of JSR's Steam release.

Thanks in advance!

[SpongebobTheHedgehog (Soul)]

https://youtu.be/qR_GmG0bcro

I'd watch this video if you haven't already.

These mods are pretty much what I use when I play SADX or SA2B.

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by Red:

- What is still NOT fixed? I've read GameCube water rendering is not as much of a lost cause as previously thought but still unimplemented (but it's okay), but was the water tint change restored at least?

There are some camera issues that can't be fixed, though that's mainly due to the game itself and not the ports. It was the first Sonic game in 3D and was fairly early in the 3D days so expect some rough edges here and there that can't be smoothed over.

Originally posted by Red:

- What is different from the original Dreamcast game? I think I've read something about Chao minigames and animations being different.

The chao garden is actually much better, at least on GameCube, compared to the Dreamcast original. The GameCube version takes advantage of the GBA instead of the VMU and can be used with the Tiny Chao Garden in Sonic Advance if you have that. But in every version that isn't the Dreamcast original, you can look at your chao's stats on-screen as opposed to requiring a VMU to look at them, the black market was originally an online only service before being discontinued thus no longer being possible to obtain everything while on every other version, it works more or less the same as it did in Sonic Adventure 2 without the need of online. The chao garden in general has some changes and overhauls to be closer to that of SA2 rather than the original Dreamcast version.

Originally posted by Red:

- Out of curiosity, just how bad are DX's gameplay and level design compared to the original? I'm not even talking about graphics here, just overall gameplay.

If you ask me, there are a few changes to the DX version that make the overall experience a lot better than the original Dreamcast version. One of those being how the original game didn't let you skip cutscenes which can really drag on repeat playthroughs or if you don't care about the story and want to focus on the game. The music no longer resets when entering a new screen and the game runs at 60FPS as opposed to 30 during gameplay.

[Red]

Originally posted by SpongebobTheHedgehog (Soul):

https://youtu.be/qR_GmG0bcro

I'd watch this video if you haven't already.

These mods are pretty much what I use when I play SADX or SA2B.

Thanks for the link!

Does Better SADX include any mod or feature not present by default with the mod loader, and are both usable at the same time to get the best possible experience? It seems that the latest version of BetterSADX uses the mod loader at its core, so I guess they *are* compatible.

Also I've seen there was a bug with some characters' eyes in SA2B (at the very least Rouge), and that there's a mod to fix that. Since it's not mentioned in the video, do you know if there are any other fixes (and not gameplay or content tweaks) that I should be aware of? And do you know if there is a mod to use higher quality videos in SADX without resorting to the AI-upscaled ones? Nevermind, apparently the Dreamcast Conversion mod takes care of that already.

Originally posted by NBOX21:

Originally posted by Red:

- What is still NOT fixed? I've read GameCube water rendering is not as much of a lost cause as previously thought but still unimplemented (but it's okay), but was the water tint change restored at least?

There are some camera issues that can't be fixed, though that's mainly due to the game itself and not the ports. It was the first Sonic game in 3D and was fairly early in the 3D days so expect some rough edges here and there that can't be smoothed over.

Originally posted by Red:

- What is different from the original Dreamcast game? I think I've read something about Chao minigames and animations being different.

The chao garden is actually much better, at least on GameCube, compared to the Dreamcast original. The GameCube version takes advantage of the GBA instead of the VMU and can be used with the Tiny Chao Garden in Sonic Advance if you have that. But in every version that isn't the Dreamcast original, you can look at your chao's stats on-screen as opposed to requiring a VMU to look at them, the black market was originally an online only service before being discontinued thus no longer being possible to obtain everything while on every other version, it works more or less the same as it did in Sonic Adventure 2 without the need of online. The chao garden in general has some changes and overhauls to be closer to that of SA2 rather than the original Dreamcast version.

Originally posted by Red:

- Out of curiosity, just how bad are DX's gameplay and level design compared to the original? I'm not even talking about graphics here, just overall gameplay.

If you ask me, there are a few changes to the DX version that make the overall experience a lot better than the original Dreamcast version. One of those being how the original game didn't let you skip cutscenes which can really drag on repeat playthroughs or if you don't care about the story and want to focus on the game. The music no longer resets when entering a new screen and the game runs at 60FPS as opposed to 30 during gameplay.

Thanks for the info!

Sounds like most remaining issues have to do with the game's design and not with porting bugs, and that the DX version had some good changes to fix long-standing problems at least.

[Dvorak]

Gamebanana is a great source for all your sonic modding needs, they should have all the fixes and cool stuff you're looking for

[Red]

Originally posted by Artorias The Darklurker:

Gamebanana is a great source for all your sonic modding needs, they should have all the fixes and cool stuff you're looking for

Yep, I browsed it a bit and it seemed to have lots of mods. Maybe too many for me though x)

[AmethystViper]

I'd personally recommend using SADX Mod Installer over BettterSADX since the former has more up-to-date mods, applies compatibility fixes, provider wider options of how you want to install and configure mods, it can work with not just the current Steam version of Sonic Adventure DX but also the retail and previous digital re-release of the game as well (e.g. the Dreamcast Collection from 2011), and comes with a nicer configuration tool than the stock version the game provides. BetterSADX also came with a build of D3D8to9 that caused some frame-pacing issues whereas SADX Mod Installer corrected that issue at least at the time I tried the former again.

• https://sadxmodinstaller.unreliable.network

[Red]

Originally posted by AmethystViper:

I'd personally recommend using SADX Mod Installer over BettterSADX since the former has more up-to-date mods, applies compatibility fixes, provider wider options of how you want to install and configure mods, it can work with not just the current Steam version of Sonic Adventure DX but also the retail and previous digital re-release of the game as well (e.g. the Dreamcast Collection from 2011), and comes with a nicer configuration tool than the stock version the game provides. BetterSADX also came with a build of D3D8to9 that caused some frame-pacing issues whereas SADX Mod Installer corrected that issue at least at the time I tried the former again.

• https://sadxmodinstaller.unreliable.network

Well, from what I've seen the latest version of BetterSADX uses the mod loader at its core, so I guess there's not much of a difference anymore...

[F-Man]

Originally posted by Red:

Well, from what I've seen the latest version of BetterSADX uses the mod loader at its core, so I guess there's not much of a difference anymore...

Both have always installed the mod loader, but that doesn't change all of the points AmethystViper noted down that only SADX Mod Installer does.

[Ikagura]

Keep in mind that you're still forced to do Amy and Big's campaings to see the real end of the game.

[Red]

Originally posted by F-Man:

Originally posted by Red:

Well, from what I've seen the latest version of BetterSADX uses the mod loader at its core, so I guess there's not much of a difference anymore...

Both have always installed the mod loader, but that doesn't change all of the points AmethystViper noted down that only SADX Mod Installer does.

Ah, didn't know that, thanks!

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Keep in mind that you're still forced to do Amy and Big's campaings to see the real end of the game.

Didn't know that either, so thanks as well x)

[Bodacious]

If you want a detailed explanation of the differences of the Dreamcast and DX versions and want to know what mods you should use then watch Cybershell's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SORYL5J1Heg

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by Bodacious:

If you want a detailed explanation of the differences of the Dreamcast and DX versions and want to know what mods you should use then watch Cybershell's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SORYL5J1Heg

There's also BlazeHedgehog's video about it: https://youtu.be/8uNsTXIzgGI

And yes, keep in mind that the game is using a modified version of Sonic Jam's Sonic World engine, has been thought as a RPG at first (thus the hub, the character upgrades and the many cutscenes) and was a rushed early Dreamcast game.
Actually even the original game is glitchy to a certain extend (DX just made it even worse).

PS: There are also two different PC versions of the game, the Steam one here (which is basically a port of the HD version) and the original Windows version from 2004 (which came from the Gamecube) which means that this version is basically the port of a port of a port of the remaster (I know, it's confusing).

[Red]

Originally posted by Bodacious:

If you want a detailed explanation of the differences of the Dreamcast and DX versions and want to know what mods you should use then watch Cybershell's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SORYL5J1Heg

Thanks for the video! I had already read most of the points in the guide he linked, but thanks anyway.

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Originally posted by Bodacious:

If you want a detailed explanation of the differences of the Dreamcast and DX versions and want to know what mods you should use then watch Cybershell's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SORYL5J1Heg

There's also BlazeHedgehog's video about it: https://youtu.be/8uNsTXIzgGI

And yes, keep in mind that the game is using a modified version of Sonic Jam's Sonic World engine, has been thought as a RPG at first (thus the hub, the character upgrades and the many cutscenes) and was a rushed early Dreamcast game.
Actually even the original game is glitchy to a certain extend (DX just made it even worse).

PS: There are also two different PC versions of the game, the Steam one here (which is basically a port of the HD version) and the original Windows version from 2004 (which came from the Gamecube) which means that this version is basically the port of a port of a port of the remaster (I know, it's confusing).

I remember watching that video a while back, but thanks anyway. And yeah, the Steam port is based off a game ported too many times already x)
I didn't know the engine was an improved version of Sonic Jam's though, so thanks for this interesting insight into the game's development.

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by Red:

I didn't know the engine was an improved version of Sonic Jam's though, so thanks for this interesting insight into the game's development.

This games had a lot of Saturn influences over it (it's probably the game with the most references to the classic series outside of the anniversary ones).

[Crystal Sharrd]

This Website does a good job of explaining everything that Sonic Team and SEGA did wrong: https://dreamcastify.unreliable.network/