Difference in navigable area between same species animal

[Glemt]

I built a Gharial habitat in which I have currently 1 female and 1 male. They need 330m2 of navigable water space. The larger, male Gharial states that I have 395m2 space of navigable water area. The smaller states 291m2, and therefore not enough. Can someone tell me why this is? There shouldn't really be an issue with navigation. The heat map shows all is reachable.

Any clues?

[Kajsa_Kavat]

Some screenshots would be nice to find the issue.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2048968678

[Just Kevin]

That is interesting, I have not seen that. Normally ground and water size (and sleep needs) goes off the total number of animals in a habitat, regardless of which animal you click on., and it increases as they create babies.

[Glemt]

Originally posted by Hlaine:

Some screenshots would be nice to find the issue.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2048968678

Thanks. I took screenshots but was too busy playing to upload them immediately : P

Female heat map
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2420637858

Female
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2420637786

Male
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2420637718

Originally posted by David Atomburger:

That is interesting, I have not seen that. Normally ground and water size (and sleep needs) goes off the total number of animals in a habitat, regardless of which animal you click on., and it increases as they create babies.

Yeah, I'm aware of that and have seen that happen indeed. Gharials are an easy example because they breed like crazy. But in this case, as you can hopefully see from the screenshots, that's not the case. In my nearly 200 hours of playing this is also the first time that I've seen it. Granted, I had not played since just after the release of the South America pack until yesterday, so I thought maybe it was a new (familiar) bug.

I have "solved" the issue by making the habitat bigger and creating more water. The numbers still deviate between the two animals, but at least now they are both happy. I wonder if it will still be the same if I restart the game. I will keep you updated.

[K.. La Sorcière]

I think it is due to the difference in size between male and female for species with a significant difference in size

[Just Kevin]

Originally posted by KGB La Sorcière:

I think it is due to the difference in size between male and female for species with a significant difference in size

That normally only counts when there's only one creature in a habitat. If more than one the needs are usually totalled up.

[Just Kevin]

I have "solved" the issue by making the habitat bigger and creating more water. The numbers still deviate between the two animals, but at least now they are both happy. I wonder if it will still be the same if I restart the game. I will keep you updated.

A: did you have both animals in at the same time? If so then it should not class them as individuals but as a whole. But I have seen the problem before. I put two salt water crocs in a habitat and clicked on the first to find out what type of land they liked, then the second one arrived and although water and land size needs for the first were still ok, for the second one it said it hardly had any land or water! I was very puzzled, so I eventually moved it further in to the habitat and all was OK. It was if the second one in was 'trapped' near the gate.
A similar problem I often see is with climbing stuff for monkeys and what not. I normally build on pause, but some habitat stats still change. In this case as I added stuff the climbing requirements would red bar. Taking it off pause returned it back to green. I still have no idea why it happens. I think as they game works out what you are doing and changes stats accordingly, it gets confused.

[Glemt]

Originally posted by David Atomburger:

I have "solved" the issue by making the habitat bigger and creating more water. The numbers still deviate between the two animals, but at least now they are both happy. I wonder if it will still be the same if I restart the game. I will keep you updated.

A: did you have both animals in at the same time? If so then it should not class them as individuals but as a whole. But I have seen the problem before. I put two salt water crocs in a habitat and clicked on the first to find out what type of land they liked, then the second one arrived and although water and land size needs for the first were still ok, for the second one it said it hardly had any land or water! I was very puzzled, so I eventually moved it further in to the habitat and all was OK. It was if the second one in was 'trapped' near the gate.
A similar problem I often see is with climbing stuff for monkeys and what not. I normally build on pause, but some habitat stats still change. In this case as I added stuff the climbing requirements would red bar. Taking it off pause returned it back to green. I still have no idea why it happens. I think as they game works out what you are doing and changes stats accordingly, it gets confused.

They were both in the same habitat at the same time, and the female (with the problem) moved into the habitat freely. I also always build on pause, but I know I need to switch it off to see the numbers change. In this case this all didn't change anything : /

Thanks for thinking along though : )

[Varick]

Originally posted by KGB La Sorcière:

I think it is due to the difference in size between male and female for species with a significant difference in size

I think you are close to the mark on this one. I believe it all has to do with what is transversable depending on height. We usually just think in terms in width with height being more of a consideration when there is an overhead- cave, arch, etc. But ground level height can come into play when determining transverasable. For example, you can make a habitat
with just a row of African pots on the ground, surround it with a null barrier, and an African elephant and ardvark can not escape due to the width of the nontransversable pots.
(A kangeroo can escape because it can jump that width lol.) If you lower the pots, you reach a point where the taller elephant's legs can reach over the the smaller nontransversable and escape but the ardvark can not.

In a way, I think the same applies to water. Since water is just a surface with a water effect below it (just talking about the nonaquatic animals- have not looked at the new aquatic ones), and the gharials, hippos, etc are really walking in the pond, I think the game looks at the available water surface for the heat map but looks at what the animals can use to walk on when determining the navigable water requirements. The male gharial has longer legs than the female whereas the hippos seem to have about the same length for males and females.

I could be all wet on this, of course. :)

[Just Kevin]

Water actually counts volume. Even with animals that only stay on the water surface, if the game says there's not enough, it is happy if you just deepen it. BTW. Even without the aquatic DLC, you can submerge the camera, it's not just an effect.

[Glemt]

Originally posted by David Atomburger:

Water actually counts volume. Even with animals that only stay on the water surface, if the game says there's not enough, it is happy if you just deepen it. BTW. Even without the aquatic DLC, you can submerge the camera, it's not just an effect.

That's actually very interesting to know.

Originally posted by Varick:

Originally posted by KGB La Sorcière:

I think it is due to the difference in size between male and female for species with a significant difference in size

I think you are close to the mark on this one. I believe it all has to do with what is transversable depending on height. We usually just think in terms in width with height being more of a consideration when there is an overhead- cave, arch, etc. But ground level height can come into play when determining transverasable. For example, you can make a habitat
with just a row of African pots on the ground, surround it with a null barrier, and an African elephant and ardvark can not escape due to the width of the nontransversable pots.
(A kangeroo can escape because it can jump that width lol.) If you lower the pots, you reach a point where the taller elephant's legs can reach over the the smaller nontransversable and escape but the ardvark can not.

In a way, I think the same applies to water. Since water is just a surface with a water effect below it (just talking about the nonaquatic animals- have not looked at the new aquatic ones), and the gharials, hippos, etc are really walking in the pond, I think the game looks at the available water surface for the heat map but looks at what the animals can use to walk on when determining the navigable water requirements. The male gharial has longer legs than the female whereas the hippos seem to have about the same length for males and females.

I could be all wet on this, of course. :)

That was my thought too, and there was a slope in the habitat I thought might be a problem. I resolved that, but it didn't solve the issue.

[Just Kevin]

Your problem is a strange one, because when the first animal is delivered to a habitat I click on it to look at it's space (and water) needs. As further animals are delivered that need increases (still clicked on the first one). If I then click on one of the other creatures the exact same need is displayed.
BTW. As long as the animals and keeper can climb a slope (and that was changed from the original game where they could hardly walk anything but the flat!) you can have habitats on more than one level. It's also a handy way to increase habitat space as they need dictates. (Offspring and what not). Often I create a cave for them to sleep in, with accessible landscape above it. It can be done the other way also, burrow in to the ground.

[Glemt]

Originally posted by David Atomburger:

Your problem is a strange one, because when the first animal is delivered to a habitat I click on it to look at it's space (and water) needs. As further animals are delivered that need increases (still clicked on the first one). If I then click on one of the other creatures the exact same need is displayed.
BTW. As long as the animals and keeper can climb a slope (and that was changed from the original game where they could hardly walk anything but the flat!) you can have habitats on more than one level. It's also a handy way to increase habitat space as they need dictates. (Offspring and what not). Often I create a cave for them to sleep in, with accessible landscape above it. It can be done the other way also, burrow in to the ground.

Yeah I do that too. Wasn't that always the case though? I remember making zoos like that always (with natural caves) even though the keepers couldn't always access it. As long as the animals could it was fine. Maybe that didn't count for the navigable area back then, I don't know.

But it is indeed a strange matter. I've also never encountered it before. What is even stranger is that the female was the second to enter the habitat.

[Just Kevin]

If a creature is able to access somewhere to have a poo, but the keeper cannot access it, the game will tell you. Often shelters, even for the tiny animals, have to be high enough for keepers to enter. Since they changed the slope percentage, though, most animals seem able to climb any landscape. I recently had two elephants escape by scaling an almost sheer cliff, and tortoises seem able to crawl around on landscape that would have Spiderman using his webs. It's an amusing glitch.
But, the game does seem to randomly develop strange things. Recently I was expecting a new animal to be delivered to its habitat, and it never arrived. I traced it to a stuck janitor just outside a trading hut. Never had that glitch before or since. Picking the chap up and dropping him, solved it.