Planet Zoo DLC Model

[NikkiDarkMatter]

Will Planet Zoo follow the same issue that I had with Planet Coaster, that is to say, a lot of content locked behind DLC? I don't mind paying for DLC and even plan to pick it up when on sale but I don't want a lot of animals and fun stuff locked behind DLC.

[HeatherG]

We don't know much about the game besides what they have told us already through videos, articles and their Development Journals on the Frontier Forum.

[NikkiDarkMatter]

I figured, I was just hoping someone who knew would reply from the devs. I'm genuinely curious as that's the only thing really holding me back from pre-ordering this

[Oz Gaming]

Originally posted by NyctoDarkMatter:

Will Planet Zoo follow the same issue that I had with Planet Coaster, that is to say, a lot of content locked behind DLC? I don't mind paying for DLC and even plan to pick it up when on sale but I don't want a lot of animals and fun stuff locked behind DLC.

That will more than likely be the case

[Harbinger]

Originally posted by NyctoDarkMatter:

I figured, I was just hoping someone who knew would reply from the devs. I'm genuinely curious as that's the only thing really holding me back from pre-ordering this

You're unlikely to get a response from Frontier on the Steam forums but their business model for single player games* is pretty well established now.

* Release a base game and then quarterly updates thereafter, some of which will require a DLC, some of which is free.

Continued development of a game post-release is not cheap. With the staffing levels Frontier maintain on each single player game it costs them around £1m per annum to keep that content coming. That's money that needs to be recouped. DLC funds continued development not just for the next DLC but also the free content that comes alongside it.

If you're not comfortable with Frontier's business model then simply elect to allow others who are to take on the burdon of covering the bulk of that cost and wait until you get more for less in a future sale event. If you were to wait until the Winter Sale event in 2020 you'd likely be able to pick up the base game + 4 DLC for the current cost of the base game but you're the only one who can decide what's right for you. Early adopters will always end up paying more.

Frontier are unlikely to change a working model. To do so would mean ceasing all development 6-12 months after release and reassigning the developers elsewhere. I'm sure most people would like to see content still coming out 3+ years down the line rather than the alternative. I know which option I prefer.

[Imagin Illyar]

I LOVE DLC. I look at how many hours of enjoyment I get out of a game vs what I paid for it. Gaming is actually one of the cheapest forms of entertainment in terms of dollars per hour. I'm happy to pay for DLC if it means that Frontier will keep developing the games I love. I'm happy to get new content that extends my enjoyment of the games I love. I want the developers of my favorite games to be paid well and not overworked so they produce better DLC for the games I love. I'd be happy to throw $20 a month at DLC if it was good content. What's that work out to at say 3 hours of play time a day - 22 cents a day? pft - bring on the DLC!

[b9thirty99]

Originally posted by imagin.illyar:

I LOVE DLC. I look at how many hours of enjoyment I get out of a game vs what I paid for it. Gaming is actually one of the cheapest forms of entertainment in terms of dollars per hour. I'm happy to pay for DLC if it means that Frontier will keep developing the games I love. I'm happy to get new content that extends my enjoyment of the games I love. I want the developers of my favorite games to be paid well and not overworked so they produce better DLC for the games I love. I'd be happy to throw $20 a month at DLC if it was good content. What's that work out to at say 3 hours of play time a day - 22 cents a day? pft - bring on the DLC!

If you are so worried about underpaid workers then maybe, you wanna first start from the guy who cleans your sewers and pick up your garbage. Without a proper hygine you will get sick and then how will you come to your computer screen and say "HEY MOMMMM!!! I want $20. It is time to pay my monthly DLC subcription with Frontier!!"?

[b9thirty99]

Originally posted by Harbinger:

Originally posted by NyctoDarkMatter:

I figured, I was just hoping someone who knew would reply from the devs. I'm genuinely curious as that's the only thing really holding me back from pre-ordering this

You're unlikely to get a response from Frontier on the Steam forums but their business model for single player games* is pretty well established now.

* Release a base game and then quarterly updates thereafter, some of which will require a DLC, some of which is free.

Continued development of a game post-release is not cheap. With the staffing levels Frontier maintain on each single player game it costs them around £1m per annum to keep that content coming. That's money that needs to be recouped. DLC funds continued development not just for the next DLC but also the free content that comes alongside it.

If you're not comfortable with Frontier's business model then simply elect to allow others who are to take on the burdon of covering the bulk of that cost and wait until you get more for less in a future sale event. If you were to wait until the Winter Sale event in 2020 you'd likely be able to pick up the base game + 4 DLC for the current cost of the base game but you're the only one who can decide what's right for you. Early adopters will always end up paying more.

Frontier are unlikely to change a working model. To do so would mean ceasing all development 6-12 months after release and reassigning the developers elsewhere. I'm sure most people would like to see content still coming out 3+ years down the line rather than the alternative. I know which option I prefer.

HEHEHE. A perfect example of a hardsell product pitch with some emotional sweetener. @NyctoDarkMatter, you already probably know that this guy wants you to buy this game, so he is forcing you down the road of choice. One choice really.

[b9thirty99]

Originally posted by jmvbento:

Originally posted by Herculean Toad:

100% guarantee, it will be same. How much you wanna bet? They didn't pull that act with Jurassic Park because it wasn't received properly. but they are sneaking worthless dlcs in that game too, just look at its store page. Do me and yourself a favour, don't buy this game. At any cost. If you really wanna play a zoo tycoon game, then go to Myabandonware and get both 1 & 2. They both run on Win 10.

Of course, Planet Zoo is *launching* with more animals than ZT had, so even if you never touch a DLC on your life you still have more content, but sure.

*more animals* doesn't mean anything if you have the assets from previous games within same genre (which were huge flop just to let you know, except one). If you have the animation and some model, and code base for them, putting different skin and moving the stomach, neck above and beyond, then stretching the tail, and animal speed, my spoiled friend, takes 0.99999% effort.

[Harbinger]

Seems to me you're adding 1+1 and coming up with 3.

I'm not employed by Frontier and receive zero renumeration for my moderation, nor do I hold any shares in their company.

It makes no difference to me whether people choose to buy the game or not. It's a decision people have to make for themselves and I genuinely believe if people don't like the model they should wait a year.

And no I won't act in an official capacity as a moderator in a topic I have contributed to personally despite your clear attempt to goad me into doing so. I could ask one of my colleagues to review it though if you want to tempt fate. Your call.

[Imagin Illyar]

Originally posted by Herculean Toad:

If you are so worried about underpaid workers then maybe, you wanna first start from the guy who cleans your sewers and pick up your garbage. Without a proper hygine you will get sick and then how will you come to your computer screen and say "HEY MOMMMM!!! I want $20. It is time to pay my monthly DLC subcription with Frontier!!"?

Well, I won't be crying to my Mom, I am a Mom and my 30-year-old son also agrees with my points on DLC. Your concern over sewer cleaners is completely irrelevant to this discussion but, just so you know, they aren't underpaid where I live.

[Chicachu]

When I first started playing Planet Coaster and wasn't quite used to making things from scratch, I too thought the DLC was a little pricey, until I realized how many hours of fun can be had with creating infinite structures with the pieces that we get. Compared to something like the Sims, the number of pieces of content for the price isn't really all that bad. But I only look at it this way because I like to price my games per hour of time spent. If you have no interest in making custom creations in the Planet games, I could definitely see why it might feel overpriced, but then again, there is always the workshop and you can still get endless hours of fun from other people's creations. To each his/her own, though!

[Jmh1000]

I'm kinda hoping we will get 3-4 large free updates, like Planet Coaster got, before any paid DLC comes out.

[NikkiDarkMatter]

@Harbinger Sorry for the rude person involved, and yeah, I get that. I do wanna support Frontier but it's so hard now that all the DLC is suddenly out to pick and choose what I get. And when I see another dev team with more value for game and DLC (in my eyes of course), it's hard for me to say "man, these DLC are definitely worth all my money". Post game development can be expensive, but there are teams who offer more than Planet Coaster's DLC did for free; Don't Starve Together, Hollow Knight, and Terraria all offer FREE updates, even if slower; and while admittedly Planet Coaster may have a higher graphical and more polished quality to it than some of the other games listed and on the market, it's hard to justify looks over content when the added content is often more polish to the looks and visual options. Planet Coaster's DLC at full price is extreme, and this is a problem I have with publishers like EA in the Sims conundrum. I don't mind the DLC but I wish it was cheaper overall.

To me, it's always felt like Planet Coaster was missing something that older Rollercoaster Tycoon style games had in terms of sheer options; and DLC may fill some of those holes, but I'm scared that DLC is what makes or breaks the game with Planet Coaster for me and THAT is the reason I'm curious if Planet Zoo will have the same thing. And with the manpower you claim Frontier has (based on that 1m figure), I'm shocked at the DLC and almost feels like they're overstaffed and not making as much as they could be. Granted, I don't work in the game industry; but when Planet Coaster's DLC content is $10.99 and adds stuff that RC as a series had in the base; and I see the trailer for Planet Zoo and notice the budget is spent on pooping animals and a seemingly small variety; and then some of the animals are ALREADY locked behind Deluxe Edition; it feels like the game will lack content that will later be made available by MORE $10.99 DLC and I simply wish they understood how inaccessible they're making their games with these prices.

I know I'm not the only one feeling this way based on:
- Numerous reviews of the game and DLC
- Multiple people in my friends who own Planet Coaster but not the DLC and agree it feels shallow compared to others
- People comparing Frontier to EA (arguably worst in the industry for micro-transactions and money grabbing) in the sheer prices of DLC and the content to DLC ratio
And I have been looking for good Zoo Tycoon and Rollercoaster Tycoon style games for years; these feel like they SHOULD be the perfect option as a huge fan of those series; and yet the DLC prices keep me locked out of it just like Sims DLC prices keep me out of that game. THAT'S why this is important to me. I just wish I could communicate that to the devs. I wanna support them but if I pay $60 for a base game, why am I then paying $10.99 per DLC pack that feels like it should have been in the game in the first place?

Sidenote: Take a shot every time I say DLC and you probably won't survive this post.

EDIT: Let me go back on what I said a bit in the fact that, based on the trailers, I don't think that Planet Zoo is going to suffer this problem as badly as Planet Coaster did. But I do stand by what I said that Planet Coaster felt like it was missing many options that needed to exist to really make it feel like a full fledged park building game and it really felt like there were many coasters and other such things that just should have existed and didn't.

[NikkiDarkMatter]

Thank you for reading over my post though, and not being cynical about it. I mean no disrespect towards anyone or the devs, I was just genuinely curious if this was an established model, and you gave me my answer in that. I guess ultimately I will have to wait to purchase Planet Zoo and hold onto my money until a cheaper price is achievable.

[Wylie28]

All that was made post launch bud. None of that content would exist otherwise. If you don't want to buy all of it don't. But why deny the people that wanted more content, more content? You have the choice to treat it like it never exists, which it would cease to wthout the required payment. It is very likely PZ will follow the same DLC method.