The Game Has Lost It's Charm

[SpaceGuyOnline]

Been playing this game since it used CB's assests with T-Posing Larry so I'm slightly used to the oddball bug or jank here or there but the Heavy Duty update and the overall lack of basic QoL updates or balance changes really is starting to hamper my impression and enjoyment of the game.

Visually I really enjoy the new human models and new heavy containment, I think they look absolutely amazing and have nothing bad to say about that, similarly the recent buff to Larry (106) granting speed upon exiting a teleport and Guards all spawning together really did buff the weaker parts of the game...

Until they changed and added several new, worse problems.

New Heavy has a lot of OP spots which I will assume will be removed in later updates, players can jump into spots they really shouldn't be allowed to which largely makes them invulnerable to the SCP's or even bullets
(Catwalks, Waterfall, Under Nuke, 106's Room, Entrance to 107's Room, just to name a few)
As a result rounds generally stall out and last even longer than before, at least previously if someone was camping old nuke or 049's, the SCP's, NTF or Chaos could reach said person at usually the cost of health (Grenade Elevator Traps) however if someone wants to jump or juke into one of these spots, that's the game until Deadman's goes off.
Like I said though, I'm expecting this to get changed with additional updates and fixed

The New Micro HID is worse in literally ever single regard. Old Micro (but not old, old micro) was a bit gimmicky to use, only really being useful if on multiple Cola's, killing ShyGuy or baiting with an elevator. It could still be used to chase after SCP's in Heavy but it's loud sound and long charge-up made it unreliable for getting kills with.
New Micro though? Yeah this thing consistently kills spawn waves and SCP's in every single game with very little true counterplay.
Elevator camping is significantly easier to do so now especially against NTF or Chaos spawn waves thanks to the absurd power of the left click Quick Charge, which charges to full in about 6 seconds, deals about 400 damage a second and barely drains any significant power to the Micro. The counterplay of baiting out a charge by not going into the elevator, wasting both power and charge time, is just no longer present at all.
While the primary fire doesn't deal that much damage to SCP's, it's can still cripple them insanely quickly.

The charge fire while attempting to mimic the old micro in terms of charge time and functionality, has also been slightly changed to be an absolute nightmare to fight against, primarily as an SCP. The range on this has been greatly extended meaning it's alot harder to get away from it once charged and ready. Old micro and 173 (Peanut) fights with it, were usually at a stalemate with Peanut's blink range being the same as the micro's meaning you'd have to push into him to deal damage. Not anymore however, the Micro extends further than his blink range. It can also blow open doors like a grenade can because we needed less counter play and escape potential.

This wouldn't be so problematic if it wasn't for these other slight changes that makes this new micro an absolute annoyance to go against, the Micro's sound has been greatly reduced. Combine that with the amount of clutter present in Heavy, and it's extremely easy to see an SCP from around a corner, charge up the Micro and then fully kill the SCP.
The big trade off of the old micro was the fact it could be heard from a mile away, meaning you knew to back-up or get blasted. New Micro though? Hardly emits any sound at all while charging up and by the time you do hear it, it's usually too late. The hiding behind a corner and charging it up is made a lot worse with the new SCP item they added as well but I'll talk about that later...
It should also be noted that Dog no longer can "see" or hear Micro charge up at all, certain this is a bug as well that will hopefully get fixed later but it's still important to note.

While I do think visually the animations and design of this new Micro are good, they're fundamentally flawed.
Old Micro's charge rate could very easily be read while it was still on the ground allowing you to have a quick glance at it and know if it was worth actually picking up or not. This is due to how massive the screen display was for it in addition to the size of Old Micro as well, generally preventing it from flipping over and hiding the display.
New Micro though, while I do love the sleek look, is super prone to rolling around, combine that with the incredibly small display that's almost impossible to read while it's on the ground essentially requiring you to pick it up to see if it actually does have charge or not. Best case scenario, you wasted 4 seconds of time picking something up just to drop it again, worst case scenario, you get killed picking up it up over something that was preventable by a quick glance in the past. (True worst case scenario is dropping your jailbird to pick up an empty micro just to have it stolen)

SCP 1344 or the Goggles are really just the breaking point for people when playing the game.
To compare the sheer power Goggles have, let's also go over SCP 268 or the Hat, another SCP item that's the closest to it.

Hat is largely a defensive item that can turn the user invisible for 15 seconds however the player can't interact with anything or use any other item, it's also on a 2 minute cooldown.
Best used against Humans rather than SCP's as 079 (PC) can see players regardless of them wearing the hat, 096 (ShyGuy) can see people who've looked at him and 173 (Peanut) detects hatted players looking at him.
If you suspect the person you're fighting or chasing has hat or they equip the hat in front of you. You can quickly close any surrounding doors, hopefully trapping them in the room until the 15 seconds is up.
(Goggles also sees people wearing hat completely cancelling it's effects for the most part)

Hat is extremely powerful but it isn't an end all be all solution to everything.

Then there's the Goggles.
Giving you wall hacks for anyone within 18 meters if they're not in direct los (line of sight) and wall hacks on someone if they are in los for 20 seconds once they leave los.

Goggles have the benefit of being both a defensive and offensive item to use, be able to gauge which fights to take or run from, the ability to set-up ambushes in advance and to scout out the map safely.

I shouldn't have to explain why a cheat is super powerful especially against Humans, doubly so when the whole los wallhacks are mentioned.
Against SCP's is also just another whole can of worms, combine my complaints with the new Micro and it's impossible to lose. The Larry buffs I praised at the very start of this? They don't matter anymore because Larry gets completely shutdown by the existence of goggles, Dog similarly also get's nerfed fairly hard with his amnestic cloud being nulled.

What about counters? Technically speaking, when you enter Goggles range, you can hear a very faint sound effect.

That is it.

The only thing to notify you that someone knows exactly where you are is a brief sound cue that very easily gets drowned out by people talking, ambience or the like. There's also a slew of problems with this sound effect as well though mainly in the way the game handles elevators and floors. If someone is in 049's and 173's containment with Goggles, even though they can't see the orbs of the players above the room, they're still technically in Goggles range and a sound cue will not play upon them actually getting into the containment room. (Unsure if nuke works the same)

This is a fairly minor complaint about Goggles but I do think it's important to mention, they're really hard to tell whose wearing them on Chaos and NTF. Chaos is a bit better but NTF is nearly impossible to notice without really looking. If you're an SCP and you have the option of killing someone in a crowd, it's best to go for the guy with the ability to see through walls but it's kinda hard to pick him out when everyone has teal goggles also on their head.

Personally think Goggles needed a lot more forethought or tuning before being brought out of the beta
some quick changes I'd make to them to be a bit more balanced.
- Goggles are yellow instead of teal coloured (Easier to spot)
- Orb placement for humans is center mass rather than on their head (prevents easy headshots and unfair deaths)
- HUD effect while under the effects of Goggles (For those that miss the sound cue)

This one is by far the most out there balance change for it
- Make other players completely invisible while wearing Goggles, leaving only their wisp present.
Against Humans, this pushes the scales a bit more towards the balance side. The person with goggles has the advantage on ambushes and getting the first hit in but would struggle in more direct fights, with the person not wearing goggles potentially being able to fire behind cover and being able to deal headshots more consistently.

Fighting against SCP's with this would have a somewhat similar effect, allowing them to regain hume shield behind cover safely. More importantly though it would mean that the person wearing Goggles would have to significantly rely on sound rather than sight balancing matches with Doc and several zombies, Dog (Mimicry as another SCP) and potentially ShyGuy while still allowing the goggles to feel somewhat strong.

While Goggles blatant unbalance was the breaking point for a decent chunk of people I find, it's really just the overall lack of super easy and small QoL changes that really dampens the game for more consistently.
Made worse when I know Northwood has directly commented on several of these before...

I love getting an SCP to play as for a round only to hear 2 of my teammates immediately quit the game, while there is an "opt out" option for those who don't want to play as an SCP, the lack of a real solution really boggles my mind when the community has had SCP Replace as a plug-in for years now solving this exact situation from happening. SCP Swap is in a similar spot too, well aware there's a preference slider that exists but sometimes the game just hates you.

Keycards are the most important items in the game to have and in the general game size of 25 players, not everyone is going to be able to grab one, that's fine. that's completely understandable. This is something Northwood themselves have addressed but haven't solved. Primarily they pointed out having guaranteed card spawns in LCZ Garden Room and SCP 173's Old Containment in a blog post (That for the love of me can't recall where) not only to ensure more people get cards in those larger server sizes but also to diminish the over reliance and chokehold that is 914 in light. Genuinely a good idea, hasn't been added for some god forsaken reason, there's only two guaranteed card spawns in LCZ, a Scientist card in PC and a Zone Manager in Candy.
Garden Room should have a guaranteed card spawn instead of a potential one along with 173's old containment having a guaranteed spawn inside of it as well, preferably a Guard card as the annoying staircase climb up is rarely worth it and Light Armoury doesn't see all that much use, giving even less reliance on 914 for escaping.
I wouldn't even mind if there was a guaranteed Janitor card spawn in the very back of Class-D Cells
(well aware skeleton spawns in 173's old containment but skeleton shouldn't spawn in light at all tbh)

Escaping while under the effects of SCP 207 (Cola) Anti-Cola and SCP 1853 (Goo) removes the effects from the player, as a result it discourages D Class and Scientists from escaping. This means additional spawn tickets won't build up and usually leads to severe cases of stalling or camping. This is another thing that has been fixed with community plug-ins and really should be in the game be default. It makes zero sense to be essentially punished for properly playing the game and "winning" as a D Class or Scientist.

Well aware the game had a tutorial eons ago and while I don't think a tutorial is entirely needed, some information or guides on the more mechanical side of the game really should be explained. The new respawn system comes completely into the mind, people shouldn't have to look up a secondary source to see what influences how fast their team spawns in.
Similarly killing cuffed players should have a penalty regardless of who killed them while cuffed, if I cuff and shoot a D Class, it doesn't have a spawn penalty, it only does if someone else shoots that cuffed D Class. This is stupid to be frank, there shouldn't be an exception. I would also similarly add that this penalty extends for several seconds after the person has been uncuffed too since there's nothing preventing people from just doing that as well.

Feel like I did a good job covering the ins and outs of certain problems the game reasonably has without mentioning the super obvious one here...

Lack of "new" content.

I put new in quotes because unlike most people who desperately want new playable SCP's or such to use, I understand that the core foundations of the game were questionable up until Heavy Update and such huge new stuff needed to be put on hold. Despite that though, there's currently still wiggle room to add variety to the game without adding anything new new.

Obviously SCP 3114 (Skeleton) is a playable class that's locked behind events and hopefully with some tweaking he could be a full-on playable one.

SCP 1507 (Flamingos) are in a somewhat similar boat, I find them to be in a decent balance state and could legitimately be in the game now with few problems I find. Having a unique containment room or pedestal for the Tape Recorder (preferably locked behind a Tier 3 Containment Card i.e Facility Manager/05 since these cards have zero purpose if nuke is unlocked)

While I get while SCP 2536 (Christmas Tree) couldn't be added year round, I don't see why SCP 559 (Birthday Cake) and SCP 956 (Killer Pinata) couldn't be.

That's not to say these would have to be active every single round either, you very easily could prevent the Tape Recorder, Cake and Pinata spawn or not spawn in rounds to further push their novelty and uniqueness.

I'm hoping that the upcoming Tooth and Nail update addresses and fixes at least some of the problems mentioned here, especially the more minor QOL changes for both Micro and Goggles that makes them extremely unfun to play against as an SCP and Human respectively. I really do genuinely enjoy this game a lot, there's nothing else really out there that matches it, which is why it's so annoying and frustrating to see so many small problems build up and ruin it... not to mention the massive one everyone feels being lack of new promising content.

[Streamlin]

the yap is honestly quite incredible

[Ender]

The game lost its charm the day Parabellum was released. Almost every single update Northwood has released since then has made the game worse.

[Real Talk]

not reading all that, its a free game

[SpaceGuyOnline]

Originally posted by Ender:

The game lost its charm the day Parabellum was released. Almost every single update Northwood has released since then has made the game worse.

Eh, lot of people talk about the golden day of SL being around 2017-18 and while I do think the overall look and jank of the game made for memorable moments it 100% did not have enough lasting power to keep it's player count if it just stuck to that.

Of course, streamlining and making the game look better and more open to newer players obviously alienated all the older ones and combine that with zero new content, you're just left with a game trying to pass off as being refined and completed rather than embracing it's jank with little to show for it.

[derpasorus-rex]

Originally posted by SpaceGuyOnline:

Originally posted by Ender:

The game lost its charm the day Parabellum was released. Almost every single update Northwood has released since then has made the game worse.

Eh, lot of people talk about the golden day of SL being around 2017-18 and while I do think the overall look and jank of the game made for memorable moments it 100% did not have enough lasting power to keep it's player count if it just stuck to that.

Of course, streamlining and making the game look better and more open to newer players obviously alienated all the older ones and combine that with zero new content, you're just left with a game trying to pass off as being refined and completed rather than embracing it's jank with little to show for it.

for me i just except the jank behind doors and some of the funniest moments like one i had was "radical larry is a T-rex"

[Sex destroyer]

okay bro go vent on the scp wiki not the forums

[Youkneed Swag]

Originally posted by Sex destroyer:

okay bro go vent on the scp wiki not the forums

i'm gonna punish the forums

[Sex destroyer]

Originally posted by hatelifemendstrife:

Originally posted by Sex destroyer:

okay bro go vent on the scp wiki not the forums

i'm gonna punish the forums

Jomfry please

[xEnded]

The thoroughness of your comment went is very much appreciated. This is the type of feedback I like to see— highlight an issue, explain your concerns in detail, and offer solutions where possible. This is criticism done well, which is awesome. Thank you for that.

We are currently working on releasing our next update (14.1) soon. We're also planning a smaller scale update (14.1.1) to address other changes we may not get to in time (along with bugs that get ID'd early on). With these updates, you can expect some adjustments to things listed within your comment— Micro, SCP-1344, unwanted SCP selection, respawn UI, and some influence changes in particular come to the forefront of my mind. There's some other related Quality of Life changes we're considering as well. More info to come as things develop.

I also want to note that we're nixing a few pixel walks in the next update. This includes a few spots in Warhead, 'Under Nuke' in particular is one of the solved ones. Related pixel-walking issues like scaling Pipe Room is also being investigated and sorted. For some of the locations you've mentioned, I don't see any reports on our bug tracker[git.scpslgame.com]. If you can give more information (including reproduction steps if at all possible, please!!) or fill out a bug report, we can begin to solve more of the 'op spot' problems you mentioned.

As a general rule of thumb— there is no issue with bringing forward concerns or complaints about the game. While there is obviously aspects that folks can disagree and argue about, there is nothing good that comes from automatically ignoring differing opinions, nor blindly agreeing with how everything is right now. Feedback and criticism is how a project grows. There is a reason we still continue to put out our Feedback forms year after year.

Thank you again. While these updates likely won't address absolutely everything you've outlined here in one fell swoop, I'm hopeful that at least some of these upcoming changes will result in better feelings about things.

Best!

[SpaceGuyOnline]

Nice to see a response that isn't just "cope" and from a developer no less. Feel like the community usually gives you guys a lot of flak without too much leeway for realising that the game has only been in a legitimately polished, "final" state for a few years all while being absolutely free.

I'm also kinda shocked that 106's room hasn't been listed as a bug since, while the least disruptive, is extremely easy to replicate and reproduce unlike catwalk jumps or getting under nuke.

Essentially you can jump onto the other side of the viewing glass by sprinting jump across the gap from 106's containment. From there you're trapped and while you can be shot at by humans, SCP's don't have any way to kill you without trapping themselves there.

This spot can get worse by slow walking carefully around the corners, seemingly teleporting you to the bottom of 106's containment (this may just be a client side visual bug however, haven't really tested it all that much)

[Number 1 Viro Skedgy Freak]

megapatch part II was the last time this game had soul imo

[mrbooboostank]

Largely agree especially about the goggles. The wiki states its downside is supposed to be the slight vignette, which is insane because the wallhack orbs completely negate the need to directly see enemies. So the downsides of the goggles in practice are that you give up one inventory slot (minor downside), they take a bit to equip and obscure some of your screen (minor downside), and that there's only one pair (its only real "downside"). It's such a strong item that it indirectly buffs the Research Supervisor Keycard as that's the earliest card that can access the goggles. Would you rather leave 914 immediately to grab the 1 pair of goggles on the whole map or upgrade your card further? It's a very easy choice since you can return to 914 later to have the best of both worlds. Funnily enough that return to 914 will be made easier via the goggles

Outside of how the goggles fit with the round's item pool, being targeted by a goggles user as a human is extremely boring because there is 0 counterplay. They have overkill information on you for no downside while you have no info on them. The concept of "wallhack goggles" might be able to work in SL but the item currently feels like it's missing its downside. If the hat were balanced like the current goggles, it would grant permanent invisibility and not deactivate on interacting. In that situation the hat's concept of invisibility would still be fine but it's lack of a downside would make the item frustrating for everyone else who has to fight the hat user

As for the Micro, I think it can stay at its current power level as long it's given a louder charging sound. It's supposed to be the primary "one man army" threat to the SCPs on a given round, with the Jailbird and 3X being secondary threats. It would just be a more fun interaction for the SCPs to hear the charging sound from further away. A louder sound would reduce the effectiveness of charging the Micro a million miles away and rounding a corner with it, which is a strategy that's made even stronger via the goggles. I'm also disappointed that the overcharged Micro is completely pointless, so it would be cool for that to have a use as well

I stopped playing for a long time after MP2 and the Heavy update got me back into the game. I think it's very likely that the goggles will receive a nerf as its insane power is nowhere near the hat which is its closest neighbor in the SCP item pool. The item is both overpowered on the macro level in that it demands that you collect it immediately, and it's overpowered on the micro level in that a goggled player is extremely likely to win fights vs multiple humans at once with little issue. The goggles aren't like microing or nading an elevator where the targets could've seen the trap on the spectator cam and picked another route, the targets get 0 info about when they're being wallhacked or where the goggles user currently is, so their only option is to proceed forward and pray that they luck out and overwhelm the goggles user

Also buff the A7 it sucks

[Insane D CLASS]

Originally posted by mrbooboostank:

Largely agree especially about the goggles. The wiki states its downside is supposed to be the slight vignette, which is insane because the wallhack orbs completely negate the need to directly see enemies. So the downsides of the goggles in practice are that you give up one inventory slot (minor downside), they take a bit to equip and obscure some of your screen (minor downside), and that there's only one pair (its only real "downside"). It's such a strong item that it indirectly buffs the Research Supervisor Keycard as that's the earliest card that can access the goggles. Would you rather leave 914 immediately to grab the 1 pair of goggles on the whole map or upgrade your card further? It's a very easy choice since you can return to 914 later to have the best of both worlds. Funnily enough that return to 914 will be made easier via the goggles

Outside of how the goggles fit with the round's item pool, being targeted by a goggles user as a human is extremely boring because there is 0 counterplay. They have overkill information on you for no downside while you have no info on them. The concept of "wallhack goggles" might be able to work in SL but the item currently feels like it's missing its downside. If the hat were balanced like the current goggles, it would grant permanent invisibility and not deactivate on interacting. In that situation the hat's concept of invisibility would still be fine but it's lack of a downside would make the item frustrating for everyone else who has to fight the hat user

As for the Micro, I think it can stay at its current power level as long it's given a louder charging sound. It's supposed to be the primary "one man army" threat to the SCPs on a given round, with the Jailbird and 3X being secondary threats. It would just be a more fun interaction for the SCPs to hear the charging sound from further away. A louder sound would reduce the effectiveness of charging the Micro a million miles away and rounding a corner with it, which is a strategy that's made even stronger via the goggles. I'm also disappointed that the overcharged Micro is completely pointless, so it would be cool for that to have a use as well

I stopped playing for a long time after MP2 and the Heavy update got me back into the game. I think it's very likely that the goggles will receive a nerf as its insane power is nowhere near the hat which is its closest neighbor in the SCP item pool. The item is both overpowered on the macro level in that it demands that you collect it immediately, and it's overpowered on the micro level in that a goggled player is extremely likely to win fights vs multiple humans at once with little issue. The goggles aren't like microing or nading an elevator where the targets could've seen the trap on the spectator cam and picked another route, the targets get 0 info about when they're being wallhacked or where the goggles user currently is, so their only option is to proceed forward and pray that they luck out and overwhelm the goggles user

Also buff the A7 it sucks

fr buff the A7 they also should add attachments to it as well too to make it able to get a kill with it at least also we need to get the old com45 sound back it sounds better

[Insane D CLASS]

Originally posted by SpaceGuyOnline:

Nice to see a response that isn't just "cope" and from a developer no less. Feel like the community usually gives you guys a lot of flak without too much leeway for realising that the game has only been in a legitimately polished, "final" state for a few years all while being absolutely free.

I'm also kinda shocked that 106's room hasn't been listed as a bug since, while the least disruptive, is extremely easy to replicate and reproduce unlike catwalk jumps or getting under nuke.

Essentially you can jump onto the other side of the viewing glass by sprinting jump across the gap from 106's containment. From there you're trapped and while you can be shot at by humans, SCP's don't have any way to kill you without trapping themselves there.

This spot can get worse by slow walking carefully around the corners, seemingly teleporting you to the bottom of 106's containment (this may just be a client side visual bug however, haven't really tested it all that much)

also when you get stuck at the window 106 can go threw the glass to get you which also if their isn't a 106 or any enemy teams means you can just round stall

[z x c_stremyanka? #noname]

pink candy solo