Are gadgets pointless?

[Goblin King]

I've been underwhelmed by the gadgets of the Gadgeteer. Most of them are much weaker version of other abilities. It doesn't help that they cost a fortune in MP to use.

For example, compare the Electroconstrictor to the Ranger's Rooting Shot.

Electroconstrictor: 8 mp cost, .9x damage, range 1-3, 50% chance of root
Rooting Shot: 0 mp cost, .85x damage, range weapon, 75% chance of root

The Rooting Shot is decent and I'd use is often. Electroconstrictor? Not so much.

[Conan The Librarian]

The basic point of gadgeteer abilities is a variety at easy access. Since you don’t have to learn the abilities, just have the gadgets, it’s quite easy to put with someone’s skillset. Also, the Gadget which gives mana is super strong and allows you to feed a strong hero with MP to do lots of damage. I’m also partial to [Healbot] because it does a heal and Healing over Time buff.

https://fellseal.gamepedia.com/Gadgeteer

[Leeber]

Originally posted by Conan The Librarian:

The basic point of gadgeteer abilities is a variety at easy access. Since you don’t have to learn the abilities, just have the gadgets, it’s quite easy to put with someone’s skillset. Also, the Gadget which gives mana is super strong and allows you to feed a strong hero with MP to do lots of damage. I’m also partial to [Healbot] because it does a heal and Healing over Time buff.

https://fellseal.gamepedia.com/Gadgeteer

So you are saying OP is right, once you have the proper class with all the abilities you need, Gadgeteer is useles

I see there are some useful skills but, still, it's better to focus on some other job at middle-late game...

[Conan The Librarian]

Originally posted by Leeber:

Originally posted by Conan The Librarian:

So you are saying OP is right, once you have the proper class with all the abilities you need, Gadgeteer is useles :lunar2019laughingpig:

I see there are some useful skills but, still, it's better to focus on some other job at middle-late game...

No, I’m saying that it’s a good skillset with a variety of options, including some good ones, and that the class on the while shouldn’t be underestimated.

[jinnro195]

The Gadgeteer skillset is pretty beast, actually. For starters, all of the gadgets are "Special" rather than "Skill/Spell". This means that neither Mute nor Cripple affect a Gadgeteer in any way, but all other classes (except Vessel) are shut down by at least one of those. Secondly, it's the only class with a mass-sleep attack as well as a targeted ATK/MND UP and a targeted DEF/RES DOWN. It's also the only class that can single-handedly charge MP every turn (Peddler technically *can*, but requires 1-2 extra heroes dedicated to stealing plus sacrificing a newborn to the Old Gods for perfect RNG).

"Jack of all trades, master of none, yet still better than a master of one" is the Gadgeteers motto and it definitely lives up to that. Most of their skills may resemble those in other classes, but they don't act the same. I won't go into detail for every skill, so I'll just use your Electroconstrictor/Rooting Shot example above.

On paper, Rooting Shot certainly looks better. No MP cost, higher chance to inflict the debuff, it is "Range: Weapon", is .85x PHYSICAL(ATK), and it can benefit from either Fellblade passive. You can smack enemies with this all day while maximizing MP gain for an eventual Sniper Shot with a high chance of controlling much of the battlefield. That's all well and good until you get Crippled or the hero is built as a melee fighter. If they're melee, then the range drops to 1 (2 with spears) and you're forcing that hero into the thick of it. You're also pitting your ATK vs the enemies' DEF, meaning it's more damaging to casters. They're not typically the ones you want to prevent moving around the map.

Electroconstrictor, on the other hand, has a fixed range of 1-3, benefits from either Fellblade passive, is .9x MAGICAL(ATK), and has a relatively low MP cost comparatively while being immune to Mute and Cripple. This means your melee characters have a ranged attack that not only has a chance to debuff, but also deals more damage to melee enemies than casters. A crit build with Versatile will also allow this move to debuff just as often as Rooting shot as well as dealing pretty substantial damage to enemies with low RES and replenish MP every crit.

So as you can see, there's more affecting these skills than simple MP cost, debuff %, and range. Neither one is outright better than the other, they just outshine each other based on the circumstances. As for the skillsets themselves, the Gadgeteer has the widest range of options of any class. Buff, debuff, heal, dispel, direct MP damage, MP charge, AoE, ATK/MND/ATK+MND based attacks, Gadgeteer literally has everything except a cleanse and self-targeting. It may have skills that seem like weaker versions of others, but they're really not and it also does a few things no other class can (Harmonizer and Energizer f*** haaaaaaaaaard). It's an invaluable set to run, especially mid- to late-game.

[Leeber]

Originally posted by Conan The Librarian:

Originally posted by Leeber:

So you are saying OP is right, once you have the proper class with all the abilities you need, Gadgeteer is useles

I see there are some useful skills but, still, it's better to focus on some other job at middle-late game...

No, I’m saying that it’s a good skillset with a variety of options, including some good ones, and that the class on the while shouldn’t be underestimated.

Nope. You didn't say that... Anyway, I'm not saying it's completely useless, it's just a worse balanced class for late game, if you like to have plenty of characters, mastering all classes and you make a stronger party that balance gadgeteer weaknesses, it's a fun class to play with. That should be enough to say.

[jinnro195]

Originally posted by Leeber:

Anyway, I'm not saying it's completely useless, it's just a worse balanced class for late game, if you like to have plenty of characters, mastering all classes and you make a stronger party that balance gadgeteer weaknesses, it's a fun class to play with. That should be enough to say.

This is 100% incorrect. My Gambler/Gadgeteer works with everyone else in my roster. He is almost completely independent of the rest of the party, outside of potentially needing a healer every once in a while. Go back and read my previous comment about what the class can truly do, and how literally no one else can match it. It's pretty much irrefutable

[MrPurple33]

Gadgeteer is one of the few classes I never use- and I have all the gadgets and tried them out
Even as a Secondary class/skill set it's underwhelming, but for me personally, the gadgets just don't Look good, seem animated a bit on the small side, size-wise, and the animations are a bit too Long and repetitive

3 or 4 of the gadgets are actually pretty useful (regenerate, speed) but overall they're not a complete set of skills for me- I'd much rather have Alchymystic/Time Mage or Gambler Secondary Buffs for most classes

As someone who owns (and still plays) FFT and FFTAdvanced, the Gadgeteer seems to be Fell Seal's attempt to replicate the Gadget/Pandora Moogle Class from FFTA, but that class had the nice Coin Flip and Screen Animations

So Gadgeteer- not for me- but one of the Big, Nice Things about Fell Seal is the amount of other classes you can pick instead

[SnowFire]

An additional point in favor of Gadgeteer is that it is the cheapest class to master in the game. Just 1000 JP. You really don't have to be in it that long, and it's perfectly valid while you're there, especially early enough in the game - if nothing else, Harmonizer for mass sleep allows some unfair plays (even better if you grabbed Malice from Fellblade), the Root ability is ranged damage, and the bump ability allows drown / knock enemies into each other nonsense. Even if we posit it's a weak class, it's not an unusable class, and you'll rack up another class mastery bonus from the short time you spend there.

[romeck]

Ekhm and since there is some bug ingame you can set all your team nosleep ring, give em all absorb mana and use sleep harmonizer in first round on your team to get 60Mana :)

[Rossaroni]

If you equip a gadgeteer skillset you get:

1. Multiple status effects
-Renew
-AoE Sleep (try it with Smart Casting)
-Weaken
-Root
-Rebirth
-Def/Res down
-AoE Haste (huge)
2. Dispel
3. Enemy displacement
-Insta kills for long drops or into water/lava
4. 20 MP restoration (only class w/ ability to restore others' MP this easily)
5. MP damage
6. Limited heals & magic dmg

That's a huge kit. For one skillset. You get a whole other skillset to go with this. It's very powerful if you keep it in mind at all times.

[Heal These Idiots™]

Mana generators are enough for me

[donaldster1]

I definitely agree that, while they have a wide range of sort-of useful abilities, most of them aren't good enough on their own to justify the class over others. HOWEVER, Harmonizer and Energizer really are strong enough alone to have me use one throughout each of my playthroughs. The Harmonizer is easy to make, and can knockout 2-3 enemies at a time. The late-game Energizer is unmatched in MP generation, with one use enough for a character to use almost any attack in the game their next turn. Bring in two Gadgeteers, and you can just spam Righteous Blades, Snipes, and Double Cast Holies. These abilities also don't rely on stats, so Engineering can be slapped onto any support character who's struggling to find a secondary.

My favorite combo is Gambler/Gadgeteer (or vice versa) with Malice and Mana Font/Mana Expert (or Initiative)/Permeance. Pile On can be looped on charmed and sleeping foes for a lockdown, and Quicken can exchange the support character's turn for the offense's/healer's. You can also use Speed Generator at the start of the battle if nobody else has the task. And once in a while, some of your other gadgets will see the light of day, like a Demoralizer setting up an Opportunistic Bullet KO.

[Saxton]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the class. In my personal in-progress mod to revamp classes (which never really got out of planning) I basically eliminated the gadgeteer and moved those around into other classes.