DEF/RES formula.

[forexcom]

Pls formula ATK against DEF.

[6 Eyes Studio]

There's a fair amount of modifiers/scaling involved, but the base barest formula is something akin to this:
dmg = atk - (def / 2)

[forexcom]

Originally posted by 6 Eyes Studio:

There's a fair amount of modifiers/scaling involved, but the base barest formula is something akin to this:
dmg = atk - (def / 2)

Ok. Then hybrid damage (ATK+MND)*0.6 and defence against hybrid damade (def+res)*6?

[Conan The Librarian]

Originally posted by forexcom:

Originally posted by 6 Eyes Studio:

There's a fair amount of modifiers/scaling involved, but the base barest formula is something akin to this:
dmg = atk - (def / 2)

Ok. Then hybrid damage (ATK+MND)*0.6 and defence against hybrid damade (def+res)*6?

For some further insight on hybrid damage, check out this:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/699170/discussions/0/3276824488721895045/#c3276824488725780362

Originally posted by 6 Eyes Studio:

@MwDagger:
Hmm, going to keep an eye out on those 1/4 abilities, it's a good point.

There's already an ability that does 1/4th of the damage dealt to yourself (rather than 1/4 of your current HP), in the Reaver tree. Those were meant to act a little differently, but the tuning could be off.

That being said, your math is a little off:

Originally posted by Mwdagger:

atk: 310 ( i could get 316 atk by switching to reaver)
mnd: 146
hp: 305
wrath dmg : (310*1.6) = 496 wrath health loss = 76 // 57 // 43 (if you used 3 times never getting hit or healed)
dark bolt dmg: (456*.95) = 433
difference = 63

The big issue with the math is the way you're calculating the hybrid damage:

atk: 310, mnd: 146
dark bolt: (310+146) * 0.95 is not correct at all.
The proper value here would be:
(310+ 146) * 0.6 * 0.95 = 260 (which is very different to 433).

Basically, for hybrid damage, the ATK and MND are "averaged", but in a generous way so the result is often better than the parts (averaged would be * 0.5 but we're using *0.6) assuming similar ATK and MND scores.

Edit: Thanks Tuidjy, I was a bit tired and forgot the whole "vs attack" "vs resist" aspect of things. Sometimes even the simple things can slip XP

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by forexcom:

Originally posted by 6 Eyes Studio:

There's a fair amount of modifiers/scaling involved, but the base barest formula is something akin to this:
dmg = atk - (def / 2)

Ok. Then hybrid damage (ATK+MND)*0.6 and defence against hybrid damade (def+res)*6?

Not at all. The stats that determine how the raw damage is computed do not determine whether the enemy uses DEF or RES to reduce the damage. It could be one or the other or neither. The skill description will tell you.

For example, Kyrie's Holy Bolt and Holy Beam both use ATK+MND to compute damage, both deal Holy damage, but one is checked against DEF, while the other is checked against RES.

In a similar manner, a gunner may shoot a magic bullet with his ATK stat, but it will be checked against the RES stat, as opposed to most (all?) other bullets which will be checked against DEF.

[forexcom]

Ok thanks.

[Fail Tank]

Could we possibly get a little more detail on what else goes into the formula, or a rough sense of how to predict the changes with stats? For instance, a character with a MND of 71 is healing 36 with heal 1, 64 with heal 2, even though they're listed as 1x and 1.75x respectively. On the other hand, Fire 1 is doing 18 damage when the mind/res difference is 27. A 27 difference should net a 13 or 14 point reduction, implying that 1x fire damage with 76 MND is ~34.

I guess what I'm asking is, is (MND/2) * skill multiplier always going to get me really close to the answer, or are there other significant factors, and if so, what are they? You reference scaling and factors, but are they obvious (like focus) or are there other hidden things for me to think about?

Thanks in advance.

[Tuidjy]

What's the problem?

36 x 1.75 = 63

It's just the display function that rounds 36.something down, or 63.something up.

Or do you means that the x1 heal is not exactly equal to the MND value?

[Fail Tank]

The problem is that MND (71) *1 is not equal to 36. Is magic straight up divide by 2, or is it more intricate than that?

[Syger]

There are base values used as well, some of the info can be found in the game options text file

[6 Eyes Studio]

In all honesty, there's too many variables to give much more details. There's several pages of code for the damage calculations, although that involves passives and counters, etc.

But as an example, for healing, there would be a few more basic multipliers: global multiplier, magic multiplier, healing multiplier, "non-directional ability" modifier and a "base spell power" coefficient.

Most of the multipliers could be multiplied together into 1 value though to be fair.

I'm pretty sure there's a thread by Corence on here where he did just that actually.

[Fail Tank]

Thanks much! I'll look for that thread, and take a peek at the options file.

[Conan The Librarian]

Originally posted by 6 Eyes Studio:

I'm pretty sure there's a thread by Corence on here where he did just that actually.

Thread in reference: (i think)

https://steamcommunity.com/app/699170/discussions/0/1729837292642255473/#c1729837292646549792

[Fail Tank]

You're a gentleman and a scholar. Mostly a scholar.

[Conan The Librarian]

Originally posted by Fail Tank:

You're a gentleman and a scholar. Mostly a scholar.

Heh thanks. I’ll admit, I don’t know how useful all that data is there—but, it’s what’s there ^_^

I personally don’t get that “nitty gritty” with the numbers.

[MTaur]

What are the formulas for damage reduction DEF and RES?

I tried Googling, but I couldn't find information about how DEF and RES work. Does anyone know?

(That is, specifically how damage is transformed into actual damage taken. I assume the stat growth rules are similar for all stats, and are based on classes and so on)