I love this game, but Zangetsu mode is just stupid...

[dustin1280]

No upgrades
No storyline
No shop
No gear
Gold is pointless

Basically nothing more than a character mod with a set movelist.

As much as I love this game (and really I do) Zangetsu mode is just disappointing, and to me shows little to NO effort.

I messed around with Zangetsu hard mode for a little bit, not sure I am going to bother, don't really see a point...

[Aumires]

To be fair, Zangetsu mode does have a lil thing right in the very end... but it doesn't justify that it was stripped off of what could have been the alternate story while Miriam did her thing. Him being able to pick up gold goes to show further cut stuff - or just being plain lazy.

[Melchiah]

Originally posted by Aumires:

To be fair, Zangetsu mode does have a lil thing right in the very end... but it doesn't justify that it was stripped off of what could have been the alternate story while Miriam did her thing. Him being able to pick up gold goes to show further cut stuff - or just being plain lazy.

Richter could also pick gold, and I'm sure Julius and Albus could as well. And there's also an example of these alternate modes done right; in Dawn of Sorrow Julius mode has a story, and if I recall correctly it's about Soma turning evil, and he's even the final boss; if they had the balls they could've made it so this is an alternate story where Miriam was consumed by all that power and Zangetsu has to go and put an end to all that, either by saving her or killing her.

And as time goes by, I'm losing faith on the 2P mode.

[⛧NecRoBile⛧]

Originally posted by Melchiah:

Just a heads up, in Portrait of Ruin (where Iga also worked) you had essentially two playable characters at the same time, a sorceress (Charlotte) and a fighter (Jonathan), and you could switch between them whenever you wanted, with each of them having their own moveset and equipment, and the second character being handled by the AI (Hell, there's even a monster that will do you no harm if Charlotte is on the lead, and even say "I love you", and a boss that will seduce Jonathan). This game however, was not exactly the most popular amongst all these castlevanias, proving that change is not always well recieved, and that if an idea doesn't sell well, it's gonna be avoided like the plague.

I appreciate the heads up, but it wasn't necessary. I've played that game, I loved it and I still have it on my shelf to this day. It may not be my favorite Castlevania game, but it's definitely a fun one and I had a blast playing it. I see what you're getting at with mentioning Portrait, but I really don't see how it's applicable here. They're not the exact same.

Ritual isn't a game where they both run around at the same time, switching back and forth for the sake of puzzles, this is a game where each character has their own story, with their own methods to reach the end goal. At least it could've been, if they gave us a fleshed out Zangetsu storyline. The other issue with Portrait is that the characters were pretty meh for the most part. I still enjoyed the game, but the characters were pretty bland for the most part, which could easily be a big part of why it didn't do so well. Another part is pretty much what Paladin wrote up above:

WALL-E
EVA
WALL-E
EVA

Oops, wrong I.P., but it works all the same.

I will definitely admit that some of it is my fault for expecting more out of this recent update, but it's hard not to expect more from someone that's capable of giving more. We've all been there in one way or another. I will definitely admit that, but I won't accept all the blame. If this was their original intent then they should have said that from the get-go, let everyone know what to expect so they wouldn't set expectations too high. The fact that they didn't say anything is what tells me that they had plans, but kept everything quiet just in case they couldn't follow-through. I understand the reasoning why they would do that, but it still sucks. If they had plans for more, it would've been better to set expectations low by telling us it would be like this, only to blow our minds later with a fully fleshed out mode. By not saying a word, they allowed out expectations to soar, only to shoot them down with what we actually got.

So, yes, our fault for expecting more from someone capable, their fault for not informing us for what to expect.

[MimicMachine]

Originally posted by Necrobile:

Originally posted by Kireek:

yeah this is kind of just how the alternate character modes in castlevania have always been.

This sort of logic here really needs to stop.

You've made a mistake here.
We aren't condoning the devs doing this
But we are saying that if you had hope this would be something more, it wasn't really going to happen, even when Igavanias have shown improvement this isn't completely the same group doing this with the same level of business advantages... maybe they'll get there with later games but as the first in a new start it's more insane to think they would nail everything first try.

[MimicMachine]

Originally posted by Necrobile:

So, yes, our fault for expecting more from someone capable, their fault for not informing us for what to expect.

Again while it may seem they are capable, are they truly?
We know they have the skill in "making a game" but for what systems and things did they do all that programming with or in?
We know they can make trailers and hype people up but how about other areas like communicating?
There was so much money raised but how much more money would be used in making triple A games, including various expenses and paychecks a triple A company wouldn't include?

I'm not saying this to disrespect the devs but just this is a truly different situation and expecting all of this to be on same level as the old standard... just wasn't going to happen even from the start.
Rather to get what we did for a first time is surprising and I hope they continue to improve from now on.

[Melchiah]

Originally posted by Necrobile:

I appreciate the heads up, but it wasn't necessary. I've played that game, I loved it and I still have it on my shelf to this day. It may not be my favorite Castlevania game, but it's definitely a fun one and I had a blast playing it. I see what you're getting at with mentioning Portrait, but I really don't see how it's applicable here. They're not the exact same.

Ritual isn't a game where they both run around at the same time, switching back and forth for the sake of puzzles, this is a game where each character has their own story, with their own methods to reach the end goal. At least it could've been, if they gave us a fleshed out Zangetsu storyline. The other issue with Portrait is that the characters were pretty meh for the most part. I still enjoyed the game, but the characters were pretty bland for the most part, which could easily be a big part of why it didn't do so well. Another part is pretty much what Paladin wrote up above:

WALL-E
EVA
WALL-E
EVA

Oops, wrong I.P., but it works all the same.

I will definitely admit that some of it is my fault for expecting more out of this recent update, but it's hard not to expect more from someone that's capable of giving more. We've all been there in one way or another. I will definitely admit that, but I won't accept all the blame. If this was their original intent then they should have said that from the get-go, let everyone know what to expect so they wouldn't set expectations too high. The fact that they didn't say anything is what tells me that they had plans, but kept everything quiet just in case they couldn't follow-through. I understand the reasoning why they would do that, but it still sucks. If they had plans for more, it would've been better to set expectations low by telling us it would be like this, only to blow our minds later with a fully fleshed out mode. By not saying a word, they allowed out expectations to soar, only to shoot them down with what we actually got.

So, yes, our fault for expecting more from someone capable, their fault for not informing us for what to expect.

I mention Portrait because it's a prime example of a castlevania with two different characters that have their own gameplay style and gear; I know they are moving around together, but that was not the point here (if anything, we can take that as an example for the two player mode that's gonna get wrecked.. most likely).

As for zangetsu storyline, I know he's running around doing stuff of his own, but from Miriam's playthrough I can tell he didn't face any of the bosses, so having his story playable would mean new bosses on new areas (maybe two or three fights with Gremory), which would imply adding stuff to the castle and changing some areas (And it seems they can't do that, hence why they scrapped roguelike mode). They could've made an alternate story as I said before, but in the end there's no point on complaining on something that's already done (I highly doubt they will improve this).

[Wasdukannst]

I have tried the zangetsu mode today and I don't get why he is so stupidly overpowered in the early game. I'm sure it gets better, but why did they not just make him start off weaker but improve more with levels than Miriam does? Seems like such an easy fix to such an obvious problem.

[Melchiah]

Originally posted by Wasdukannst:

I have tried the zangetsu mode today and I don't get why he is so stupidly overpowered in the early game. I'm sure it gets better, but why did they not just make him start off weaker but improve more with levels than Miriam does? Seems like such an easy fix to such an obvious problem.

He will feel weak as ♥♥♥♥ eventually (like Richter), and that's a shame.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Wasdukannst:

I have tried the zangetsu mode today and I don't get why he is so stupidly overpowered in the early game. I'm sure it gets better, but why did they not just make him start off weaker but improve more with levels than Miriam does? Seems like such an easy fix to such an obvious problem.

That strength doesn't last long, because he doesn't improve much over your run.

[Wasdukannst]

So they basically picked a powerlevel that would be adequate for the midgame and gave us that powerlevel for the whole game? That sounds extremely lazy and not very well thought out at all.
I get that they did not want to make a second storymode but they could at least have made Zangetsu fun during all stages of the game. The game is good, the two new modes just feel like they were half assed to be honest.

[Melchiah]

Originally posted by Wasdukannst:

So they basically picked a powerlevel that would be adequate for the midgame and gave us that powerlevel for the whole game? That sounds extremely lazy and not very well thought out at all.
I get that they did not want to make a second storymode but they could at least have made Zangetsu fun during all stages of the game. The game is good, the two new modes just feel like they were half assed to be honest.

Because they were; In Nocturne in the Moonlight, Richter was the same and once you got to the inverted castle you would get your ass handed to you quite often, while if you played as Maria, the game was super easy cause she was OP as ♥♥♥♥.

I bet we will have the same here, and whoever the third character is will be OP as ♥♥♥♥, and again, 2P mode will probably be canceled or super lame (P1 being zangetsu and P2 the OP char, crushing the game while Zangetsu stays back with his thumb up his ass).