Anyone ready for a completely random playthrough?

[Lilbear10]

As much as it sucks that they took so long for such a small update. I'm pretty excited for randomized plays. I've always been a fan of them. I'm not sure how much i'll randomize as far as shop and crafting but enemies and world items will probably be completely randomized. I cant wait for tomorrow.

[TheComboAddict]

After they announced randomizer, I started playing some to actually see what they were like and did a little DS vania randomizer. I'm pretty excited to after that.

[Captain Morgan]

A what? Completely random? No, this isn't the case. The only thing that randomizer randomizes is loot, nothing else. The Roguelike was scrapped.

[Sam.H]

Still waiting the update comes.

[TemmieNeko]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Captain Morgan:

A what? Completely random? No, this isn't the case. The only thing that randomizer randomizes is loot, nothing else. The Roguelike was scrapped.

The eight parameters that can be adjusted are:

Goal: This determines the win condition of the given Seed, and in turn has an effect on which items are designated “Key items” and how much of the map will be in play.

Key Items: These are items that are required to complete the playthrough. Other options can further alter these items. Items cannot be randomized in a way that prevents your progress.

* Shuffled: (Default) The Key Items are mixed up, but will always spawn in a Key Item location. Key items you earn from defeating a boss (ex. Double Jump) will still come from a boss – but not the same boss!

* Anywhere: Key items are added to the general item pool and can be found anywhere, depending on settings. With this parameter set, Boss rewards may be minor or even trivial.

Save / Warp Rooms:

* Unchanged: The rooms appear as they do in the core game.

* Mixed: (Default) The Save and Warp rooms are shuffled.

Items:

* Retain Type: Items of a certain type, such as weapons, will always spawn where a weapon would spawn. For example, a chest that originally held a Whip may now hold a Rapier, but will never hold an HP consumable.

* Retain Method: Items will always appear from the same method of spawn as they originally did. Ie. Items found in chests will shuffle amongst themselves, items hidden in walls will remain hidden in walls, etc.

* Total Random: (Default) This lets any item spawn anywhere, regardless of the original item in said location. There may be additional limitations based on the other settings.

Enemy Drops: This setting governs anything dropped by enemies.

* Unchanged: Enemy Drops remain consistent with the main game.

* Mixed Shards: Enemies can drop any shards. Note if “Retain Type” is selected, this will keep Shards of the same type together (If an enemy drops an Effective Shard, it will now drop a different EffectiveShard).

* Mixed Items: (Default) Only the physical items dropped by an enemy can be randomized. If “Retain Type” is selected, the drops will remain similar to the original setting (A weapon drop is replaced by a weapon drop).

* Chaos: Items and Shards can both be randomly assigned and replaced by anything.

Quests

* Unchanged: (Default) Quests are unchanged.

* Shuffled: This distributes Quest Rewards in accordance with the other settings.Quest requirements will remain the same, but rewards are altered. This will obey the “Retain Type” (similar items shuffled in) “Retain Method” (current items are all shuffled among themselves) and “Total Random” settings.

Shops

* Unchanged: (Default) The shop is unchanged from the main game.

* Shuffled: This will obey the “Retain Type” (similar items shuffled in) “Retain Method” (current items are all shuffled amongst themselves) and “Total Random” settings.

Crafting : This setting affects all the crafting systems, Weapons, Cooking and Shards.

* Unchanged: (Default) The shop is unchanged from the main game.

* Shuffled: “Retain Type” governs the crafting ingredients. “Retain Method” governs the Crafting Results, and “Total Random” mixes both.

Examples:
Shuffled Set – Retain Method
Core game: Mithril + Damascus = Swordbreaker
Randomizer: Mithril + Damascus = Dragon Shoes

Shuffled Set – Retain Type
Core game: Mithril + Damascus = Swordbreaker
Randomizer: Ectoplasm + Saltpeter = Swordbreaker

Shuffled Set – Total Random
Core game: Mithril + Damascus = Swordbreaker
Randomizer: Gold + Baselard = Country Dress


seems not just items, but yeah this is not a true randomzier - I'm pretty sure they have no clue hwo to balance things so the game is always winnable with true randomziaton.

[Lilbear10]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Captain Morgan:

A what? Completely random? No, this isn't the case. The only thing that randomizer randomizes is loot, nothing else. The Roguelike was scrapped.

I didn't say roguelike though. I said randomizer. I didn't know roguelike was even planned would've actually liked that more. I'm still excited for it though.

[Lilbear10]

Ursprungligen skrivet av TemmieNeko:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Captain Morgan:

A what? Completely random? No, this isn't the case. The only thing that randomizer randomizes is loot, nothing else. The Roguelike was scrapped.

The eight parameters that can be adjusted are:

Goal: This determines the win condition of the given Seed, and in turn has an effect on which items are designated “Key items” and how much of the map will be in play.

Key Items: These are items that are required to complete the playthrough. Other options can further alter these items. Items cannot be randomized in a way that prevents your progress.

* Shuffled: (Default) The Key Items are mixed up, but will always spawn in a Key Item location. Key items you earn from defeating a boss (ex. Double Jump) will still come from a boss – but not the same boss!

* Anywhere: Key items are added to the general item pool and can be found anywhere, depending on settings. With this parameter set, Boss rewards may be minor or even trivial.

Save / Warp Rooms:

* Unchanged: The rooms appear as they do in the core game.

* Mixed: (Default) The Save and Warp rooms are shuffled.

Items:

* Retain Type: Items of a certain type, such as weapons, will always spawn where a weapon would spawn. For example, a chest that originally held a Whip may now hold a Rapier, but will never hold an HP consumable.

* Retain Method: Items will always appear from the same method of spawn as they originally did. Ie. Items found in chests will shuffle amongst themselves, items hidden in walls will remain hidden in walls, etc.

* Total Random: (Default) This lets any item spawn anywhere, regardless of the original item in said location. There may be additional limitations based on the other settings.

Enemy Drops: This setting governs anything dropped by enemies.

* Unchanged: Enemy Drops remain consistent with the main game.

* Mixed Shards: Enemies can drop any shards. Note if “Retain Type” is selected, this will keep Shards of the same type together (If an enemy drops an Effective Shard, it will now drop a different EffectiveShard).

* Mixed Items: (Default) Only the physical items dropped by an enemy can be randomized. If “Retain Type” is selected, the drops will remain similar to the original setting (A weapon drop is replaced by a weapon drop).

* Chaos: Items and Shards can both be randomly assigned and replaced by anything.

Quests

* Unchanged: (Default) Quests are unchanged.

* Shuffled: This distributes Quest Rewards in accordance with the other settings.Quest requirements will remain the same, but rewards are altered. This will obey the “Retain Type” (similar items shuffled in) “Retain Method” (current items are all shuffled among themselves) and “Total Random” settings.

Shops

* Unchanged: (Default) The shop is unchanged from the main game.

* Shuffled: This will obey the “Retain Type” (similar items shuffled in) “Retain Method” (current items are all shuffled amongst themselves) and “Total Random” settings.

Crafting : This setting affects all the crafting systems, Weapons, Cooking and Shards.

* Unchanged: (Default) The shop is unchanged from the main game.

* Shuffled: “Retain Type” governs the crafting ingredients. “Retain Method” governs the Crafting Results, and “Total Random” mixes both.

Examples:
Shuffled Set – Retain Method
Core game: Mithril + Damascus = Swordbreaker
Randomizer: Mithril + Damascus = Dragon Shoes

Shuffled Set – Retain Type
Core game: Mithril + Damascus = Swordbreaker
Randomizer: Ectoplasm + Saltpeter = Swordbreaker

Shuffled Set – Total Random
Core game: Mithril + Damascus = Swordbreaker
Randomizer: Gold + Baselard = Country Dress


seems not just items, but yeah this is not a true randomzier - I'm pretty sure they have no clue hwo to balance things so the game is always winnable with true randomziaton.

Yeah i feel like the main problem is progression in metroidvania games require upgrades and if you randomize everything you might get locked before the first boss.

[Melodia]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Lilbear10:

Yeah i feel like the main problem is progression in metroidvania games require upgrades and if you randomize everything you might get locked before the first boss.

I suppose you've never played a randomizer before. The majority of the time they have logic to prevent this. I assume, especially given this is an official patch and not just something fan made, this will be true here.

[Lilbear10]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Melodia:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Lilbear10:

Yeah i feel like the main problem is progression in metroidvania games require upgrades and if you randomize everything you might get locked before the first boss.

I suppose you've never played a randomizer before. The majority of the time they have logic to prevent this. I assume, especially given this is an official patch and not just something fan made, this will be true here.

I have played them. I know they can just exclude certain things from being random no regardless of what options you select. You're basing my experience based on your assumption that the game will be playable with everything randomized. We don't know how they will handle everything. could just removed obstacles based on boss killed or could just make sure bosses still drop the required shards/items regardless if they're for the progression of the game.

[Melodia]

I'm assuming that, given it's a an official update to a game developed by a large company (as some might call it, an 'AA' game) that it will have the logic to prevent softlocks. Or alternatively, there will be a nice obvious warning that a seed with the settings might not be completeable.

[Lilbear10]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Melodia:

I'm assuming that, given it's a an official update to a game developed by a large company (as some might call it, an 'AA' game) that it will have the logic to prevent softlocks. Or alternatively, there will be a nice obvious warning that a seed with the settings might not be completeable.

This is the same "AA" game that didn't deliver on its promises. Personally i dont care for your assumptions and I know what i'm getting myself into. The game is great and I'm just waiting on the update to come through so i can play.

[TemmieNeko]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Melodia:

I'm assuming that, given it's a an official update to a game developed by a large company (as some might call it, an 'AA' game) that it will have the logic to prevent softlocks. Or alternatively, there will be a nice obvious warning that a seed with the settings might not be completeable.

I htink the line that says " set your win conditons " makes me not care for this at all.
Sure, LTTP randomizer runs have modes with win condtions - keysanity, X number triforces, etc.
But that is given SO much forethought, and that romhack took years to assemble, and still gets work on it.

the fact that's a line here makes me think certain seeds WILL be broken, and it will move your goal post to accomodate this.
sloppy, in other words.

hope im wrong

[PageFile]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Lilbear10:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Melodia:

I suppose you've never played a randomizer before. The majority of the time they have logic to prevent this. I assume, especially given this is an official patch and not just something fan made, this will be true here.

I have played them. I know they can just exclude certain things from being random no regardless of what options you select. You're basing my experience based on your assumption that the game will be playable with everything randomized. We don't know how they will handle everything. could just removed obstacles based on boss killed or could just make sure bosses still drop the required shards/items regardless if they're for the progression of the game.

Hopefully they took inspiration from the LttP randomizer. I'm pretty sure it's the most mature one out there so it'd made sense to learn from it.

TBH though, I kinda hope they find a way to pass development of the routing logic to the community eventually, simply because a company can't be expected to support something forever if it doesn't make financial sense to to so..

[Melodia]

So far my experience is there won't be softlocks. The open the wall in the ship so that's not a barrier, and they seem to lean toward randomizing earlier things earlier. They probably guarentee any progression be obtainable when needed.

[Kuzuryou]

omg my first shard 5 minutes after starting randomizer is chisel barrage XD

[Emerald Lance]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Shubborath:

omg my first shard 5 minutes after starting randomizer is chisel barrage XD

I'm hoping this drops for me soon! XD