5 years Still no release? how many years it took Developing SOTN ?

[Alucard]

First lets start by watching 2 minutes Gameplay from the masterpiece to refresh your Memory
​https://youtu.be/d2JsYKbWubY?t=5716​​​
3 DS Games were the best on the portable Following SOTN
​https://youtu.be/HxZfT7ysMOQ?t=731​​​
i wanted people to see the world we live in and the irony of how a game that is 2 Decades old still cant be followed with a true Graphicaly Upgraded 2D Engine, they went lower with DS Sequels and that was it.

i don't know where to begin...as a fan of SOTN and the SNES Games, having played every single release from NES+SNES, N64 to The Game Boy Advance to the NDS Trilogy i am very disappointed on their overall Art, Visual direction for igarashi's new game

Aria of Sorrow and Down of Sorrow perfected everything that was great about Symphony of the Night, it had Terrible downgrade to Visuals but the spirit of the Gameplay and animations were all there

ill go case by case to prove that you will fail with your new game

first lets clear some facts out of the way and ill be very transparent:

we live in an Age where we can get any game for free, having said that, i still own an Original Copy of every Igavania Style made by him

My favorite one is the "SEGA Saturn version" of SOTN it felt like more of an expansion of a great game (Igarashi hates this port because its inferior to the original)

well lets see, the Japanese voice acting was phenomenal and gave life to the 2d sprites had a soul compared to the English Dub, whoever was doing the Japanese dub was faithful to his job, the extra character add on was great callback to Dracula - X

after so many years, i have modded my PS Vita and Switch and Wii U, i have a copy of SOTN on Probably every device that has a screen on it from smartphones or an android Alarm Clock...to a Car Dashboard

i really do not understand how a company that made a masterpiece like SOTN just refuses to port it to to every Game console to expose it more.

it was Great to own it on xbox live arcade, Harmony of Despair was a great surprise too and such a disappointment you didn't make a new game with that Engine......

now that i have cleared myself and established that i already purchased several legit copies of SOTN on PSN, PSP, Xbox,PS4, Satrurn

i was very angry that looking at Nintendo Switch and it becoming a shovel ware of a port Machine.....it still doesn't have SOTN so with little fondling and modding the console managed to play Dracula x from PC engine and SOTN, finished both again on the console that Konami still refuse to support with the games that fans want (yes i can play it On PC or PS4 but i love to play that game anywhere anytime any place on every console i could

Mega man has managed to spread its Collection on every console...not my style of game, but i respect Capcom for preserving the entire Franchise for Decades to come)

its been 2 decades, me and most fans still regard SOTN the best the series had to offer we like to be able to play it for years to come.

so back to BloodSteined, i am very confused....

SOTN how many developers back then 8?

i want you to remember this line from Wikipedia: "Their primary motivation for the abrupt design change was the sight of dozens of Castlevania games in bargain bins of Japanese video game stores"

you have struck Gold when you made SOTN style you Struck Gold again with The DS sequels.
​https://youtu.be/XtCYuGyES-Y?t=18​​​
look at Forgotten ANNE(not an Igavania gener but the Style it has) and Dead Cells, look at Timespinner, if you had gone the Style of Forgotten Anne or tasked "Arc System Works" to lend their Unreal Engine 4 Guilty Gear style Engine, you could have preserved SOTN for the new Generation intact if you really wanted to go 3d and keep its spirit

Since SOTN for 2 decades we have not received a true successor that surpasses its 2d Style or remaster it or remakes, we recently Got a Butchered port from the PSP version with Wrong SFX sounds attached to the Wrong Enimies and a much worse Dub then the Original...)

>>>>you had a great character artist<<<<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAh5aM0vBVY
Timespinner on Vita & PS4/PC is as close as it gets to Having that SOTN Nostalgia, no other game has done it yet
​​
in my mind a perfect Successor would have been something done with "Game Maker" Engine that had visual styles of Dead Cells with the Gameplay of Bloodsteined

if you were still in charge of "castlevania" doing a successor in the style of "Forgotten Anne would" have been the best Direction regardless of whatever Resources you needed you would have Done justice to your Legacy

if you had gone 2d, with the funding and 5 years your Team have you could have finished the game by now even if yo didn't have assets......you could have hired people from Deviant Art to give yo the best 2d assets faithful to SOTN

New Indie Developers are still trying to capture your Magic and still fail

why is it so hard to redo what you achieved on PlayStation 1 limited 2D graphics with 8 programmers back then?

so a simple Formula for a successful Igavania game should be a 2D side-scrolling and have an in-game map which shows your progress

While you now take a moment to check how many of the games Done the above criteria and was released in less then 5 years, some was a one man show Creations:

Time Spinner (Best game Following SOTN albeit chibi Deformed Spirits)
Dead Cells
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Axiom Verge
Forgotten Anne (Best 2D Style Game and Visuals)
Ori and the Blind Forest
Hollow Knight
Strider
Deaths Gambit
Salt and Sanctuary
SHhovel KNight (Several Seqels)
Shantae (several sequels)
Owl Boy


Michiru Yamane Music and Ayami Kojima timeless Art Style is what made SOTN stand the test of time, please go play your Game now: Obtain the Bat Sonar Ability then Collect The Spike Break Armor then the Silver & Gold rings go Save Richter and pause the game.

and ask yourself if you have achieved or surpassed what you have done?

having the same Music Designer is still not the same Game, (How many God of war Games failed without the Original Director), its the same as going to watch a new Batman Movie or a Star wars movie and realizing its not done by the same director or the same as when you have expectations for a new Metal gear Game or king Of fighter Game and you see that the new Team has failed to Capture the magic of the early Releases

please learn from others mistakes, look at Mega Man latest Terrible Games, and look at Mega Man Zero / Mega Man ZX on GBA / DS these games capture your SOTN spirit and now they are making Dragon: Marked for Death

we fans follow who made our games because we know they are faithful in doing their work

10 years from now ill only remember your game: Bloodsteinaed as the game that was in development Hell, was more important to you to get a physical release then a digital and let it out on PS Vita and Switch ( regardless of Vita Piracy you would have made a fortune from Asia and Japan the console is still alive with digital Purchases)

you should really reward what your followers want, not go corporate and apologize for 5 years and make excuses and delays.

please return to making games that has the visual appeal of SOTN with the same artists or someone who follows in their style, SOTN was not a one man show and was a collaboration of the best talents from music and art and Accessible Game play and Direction.......you wont bet my support without your original Team

Sorry but you should council with Toru Hagihara and not add more studios....

at least bring the man who Helped make Castlevania Great again

5 years Excuses and Delays is not justified by Apologizing when you have made SOTN with LESS talent and Man Power

Sonic 4 was a flop (it followed the original without the Mechanics that made it great)

Sonic Mania was success (it followed everything the Original Did)

Sonic Mania is a sign that Fans know how to make a successful game to a great Series after decades past.............

if i had the chance to Remake SOTN ill chose this style:(the first time i saw the traler i didnt belive it was 3D untill the camera Angle changed)
​https://youtu.be/urUM2Ne_vTw?t=47​​​
and release another Expansion using this 2D Fighting Engine:
​https://youtu.be/cnyK0oGX7Oc?t=57​​​
What Arc System Works done for their work is what SOTN and any Future successor to it Deserves

i Rest my Case with the Community

[El Fuerte]

How can someone possibly compare Konami and its number of employers at the time with a indie kickstater project?

Sometimes i have no hope for humanity anymore .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks47X-XioEA

Let these guys polish their game so it won't be a disappointmet. Impatient children

[Hunter Este]

Początkowo opublikowane przez lixion:

How can someone possibly compare Konami and its number of employers at the time with a indie kickstater project?

Sometimes i have no hope for humanity anymore .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks47X-XioEA

Let these guys polish their game so it won't be a disappointmet. Impatient children

Let people who are frustrated with 2+ years of delays vent their frustration, child.

[Malphas]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hunter Este:

Początkowo opublikowane przez lixion:

How can someone possibly compare Konami and its number of employers at the time with a indie kickstater project?

Sometimes i have no hope for humanity anymore .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks47X-XioEA

Let these guys polish their game so it won't be a disappointmet. Impatient children

Let people who are frustrated with 2+ years of delays vent their frustration, child.

The game never had a release date to be delayed in the first place.

[ElectroRanger]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Alucard:

post

Okay, you seem WAY too obsessed than you should be about SoTN. But as someone else who doesn't hold high expectations for this game (Not caring for delays or anything at this point, graphics just look too detached from the background but I'm willing to wait until reviews/gameplay), but Castlevania isn't a perfect series per se, nor is SoTN the most amazing game of all time.

Innovative, genre establishing that's memorable? Sure, but a whole bunch of things just never quite worked well gameplay wise.

Given that apparently the dev team from what I've heard didn't exactly keep up on what everyone was making lead to some BROKEN areas in terms of enemy placements, difficulty spikes or lack thereof, items with literal easy mode abilities...

And it's actually felt like a nice game of exploration! Unfortunately you can't have that in modern games because design wise there's little of sense to that, but if you do look at each individual item you can realize the game has more mechanics than meets the eye (like how the spell system allows you to cast anything from the start if you already know the code, the hidden empowerment to the fireball spell, the weapon special attacks, basically things that plain don't have any hint whatsoever in the game), yet it wouldn't work because of just how confusing it all is without a wiki at hand.

Or how about the items that were NOT useful? 2 handed comes to mind as literally the first one you get has likely less damage and sometimes staggers you, for no particular reason to make you want to use 2 handed weapons. Or how about the useful mechanics that stopped existing, like the shield mechanic? Likely because it allowed you to tank the pace, something which with harder game modes on the DS is not an option.

And for best and worst, the removal of some of your combat features just makes sense in the long run. No one ever uses the items in SoTN besides maybe that lord thingy, because consumables are, well, consumed. Shields never made a return because they were too much of a focus on making it easier to get through enemy territory rather than skillful movement or careful attacking. Shield rods never made a comeback because...well, Shield rods.

Now for the castle:

In addition, teleportation wasn't exactly fun. A lot of rooms would require serious traveling back and forth to if you aren't familiar with the game. Later games fixed that with more teleportation methods added, but you also notice that levels were more horizontal, more linear even, so as to both make it less confusing and easier to find your way around. In a metroidvania sense it's worse because backtracking is minimal to basically "dead ends" with some extra loot or important items for the story, but at the very least it's not a teleportation system too far apart were if you're not sure what to do next, the game doesn't entirely provide a good way to advance unless you memorize every nook and cranny.

Enemies were also kind of terrible in design. Unique monsters on one hand, but again, lack of synchronization between devs and all, and basically most areas are just cannon fodder monsters for you to slay. At least later games gave more of a unique quirk to some of your enemies like having something take only 1 damage per hit but it drops crazy end game sword or happens to guard a small treasure, tin robots that make you want to avoid detection in the lighthouse because of how insanely dangerous they are (unless again, your'e skilled enough for them), or even just plain enemies that simply have a cool move. Sure, in a normal run you would likely see it all as cannon fodder, again, but play it on hard mode with a limitation of 50 levels or even 1! THAT'S when the true feeling of horror sets in...and you have to be careful.

Without going into much else through the castle (secrets are what they are so I've no problem there), the inverted castle obviously doesn't age the best. For it's time yes, it was an AMAZING feeling to suddenly have more of the game. When you grow older, you do realize that most of it is now just a hack n slash through old enemies of the series with even more pointless loot, but hey! At least the secrets are all in one place, so there's something nice in there if you noted secret rooms throughout the castle. Other than that, traveling becomes more troubling because the castle design doesn't entirely match a vertigo shift. And then you have the music..oh boy... Great soundtrack sure, but not when you hear it for most of the castle. I'm also remembering that the librarian is not in the inverted castle, so more backtracking for ya!

Now, with all of that out of the way, back to your main posts supposed focus: The Graphics.

That part I can't argue at all. SoTN did JUSTICE with the incredible use of both detailed 2D sprite art, while also mixing the background's 3D effects for some impressive looking rooms such as the chapel. But again, not all of it survives the test of time, just SOME of it. Same goes for the pixel quality over the years, as you can see some major difference between what may look like a modern pixelated game to something of the old age. Look at The Messenger for comparison. It's easier to compare between the two how NES sprites were more block-y shaped than the indie stuff today, or how in case of Sonic where Mania's sprites are much brighter and more detailed in animation in comparison to the Genesis.

Now, to say you can make the same quality of today with something of the scale of a metroidvania? With 2D? A lot harder than you think. Sprite animation, at least on a video game overhyped due to Igarashi's involvement and fanboy rage would mean serious work on every 2D aspect, including not just the main character, but each weapon, each weapon TYPE, each enemy, each room in the castle, character portraits, item details...Basically, all of those things together, and from total scratch, is not exactly an easy effort for a small team like what was started when the kickstarter came alive.

Obviously games like the newest Shantae prove you don't always need to stick to Pixelated 2D, but again, you have to consider how many people in the team actually do the art process, and then the animation, and then the design, and then likely scrapping hundreds of ideas because you realise that design looks terrible or doesn't really work for any area in the castle, that kind of work and likely with only about 8-9 hours of work a day means you're not getting that much done and would likely take a whole bunch of the time from the game.

This isn't even to say I defend the 3D art, because it looks like garbage to me and I'll honestly have a hard time to look at this game if the style is the same as presented in the store page, even if the gameplay is pretty incredible. There's sprite art that's low quality that can at least feel matched up, and then there's bloodstained's cell shaded characters on an Unreal Engine made background. Between those two I take former because it DOESN'T STRAIN MY EYES.

And soundtrack wise? So far the soundtrack's pretty fine for the game. As much as I'll admit it'll likely not have Symphony of The Night's...obviously, Symphonic, nature of music, it may or may not be just as memorable. For that matter, a whole bunch of the more memorable soundtracks for me from the series are equally from the GBA to DS games.

I can think of at least up to 3 or 5 memorable pieces from SoTN, but I'm not going to lie that the series at least kept it's style of music not only to be generally good for every game, but also that every game had a sountrack that felt in a way unique to it's own experience. Just take a listen to Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia (my fave) and you'll see the point. Each one has maybe same if perhaps less timeless tracks, but they're all kind of unique in a way to their own game.

Difference being, that SoTN's just kinda jumps all over in genres and doesn't exactly decide on what it wants to make you feel about an area. A personal taste really, but again, it's all thanks to the time it was made during.

Anyways, this is already a long post, so I'll just sum up my opinion and then quickly mention what I think about some of the games you and others mentioned that I've experienced:

Basically, Bloodstained will be publicly seen as the successor to Castlevania in general, unless of course it ends up a critical failure like another kickstarter title or two.

As far as it's majority wise considered, many people remember Shovel Knight or heck even Mega Man 11 than anyone who'll ever mention Mighty No. 9 being good. People discuss for both meme sake and general enjoyment of A Hat In Time, rather than any major focus being put on the old Yooka Laylee that tried to relive it's days of glory (and got panned for it and some of it's odd design choices from the past, and that's besides the toilet incident).

Can anything so far be said about bloodstained? Not exactly, because it didn't come out yet.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll just it when it's out and unless it gets slammed in reviews (or even overtly gushed in reviews). Symphony may be a series and genre maker, sure, but it's far from design wise being the best out there, in general most metroidvanias are like that. Either someone will complain about one area being too hard than the rest, either too many dead ends or not enough branching paths, not enough playstyle variations to call it a metroidvania or too many playstyles that are just useless.

Overall between Castlevania and Metroid's design philosophy, only metroid from the sound of it does the metroid part right, being all about finding upgrades to return to areas. Castlevania? Castlevania is fun for the fact you get a variety. One series is best in sticking to the formula, the other succeeds in always changing the rules across games while giving you a variety of tools to figure out which playstyle you feel would work in an area or vs a boss.

That's why as far as I consider, the term "metroidvania" should split more into metroid styled games that involve backtracking and upgrade collecting, to action rpgs with a metroid level design. Combining the two just creates a very muddy term for something that even to this day is hard to argue which has done it right.

And now for the other games and what they did right/wrong! List is limited to things I've played/seen so my apologies for that:

TimeSpinner- Overall looks good in terms of visuals and gameplay feels OOE smooth, but wirting is too smudged with modern day politics (that the writing team that worked on this game extremely promote), so at best I can say it's visually done correct, but I've never touched the game on experience because of the whole extreme involvement (apparently according to someone on the forums the writing was generally bad regardless, due to grammatical reasons)

Hollow Knight- Excellent metroid styled game. Amazing visuals for a team of 3 people, more of a case of super dedicated humans that could in fact compete with Bloodstained on art wise. Boos rush DLC isn't fun. Can't wait for the sequel.

Dead Cells- More rogue like than a metroidvania, this one takes the cake on being just plain hard while also being amazingly fast paced and overall variety heavy gameplay with great pixel art that was made from 3D conversion or something, I think. Wonder if the damage boost system is still as broken as I've heard last time or not, being that at some point you shouldn't grab more points because it doesn't become beneficial or something.

Dust: An Elysian Tail- Like Hollow Knight but earlier, it's done some amazing visuals for a team of literally ONE. Playstyle wise still linear but overall I remember it to be fun. Too bad a sequel wouldn't likely happen for the next who knows how much time...Not too big on the metroid backtracking however other than end game loot at most in the end.

Shovel Knight- From what I've tried, too hard for me. Not a metroidvania however, but overall I can see why it's considered good.

Salt and Sanctuary- Many unforgiving mechanics, but overall another playstyle adaptable gameplay with skill system nonetheless, too riddled with Souls references but for a 2D style it does look...unique. Still recommended.

Chasm- No. Just no. Never again.

On a more serious note I haven't checked chasm in awhile, it might've been improved since, but the basic mechanics are too similar to Castlevania that it feels repetitive. Crafting is boring, RNG locations aren't as unique as advertised, and a lot of sluggish feeling on launch due to design choices. Who knows, MAYBE it gotten better, but last time I was on the forums there it feels like the devs are still in touch with anyone who says anything REMOTELY good about the game so it might just be desperation.

Tl;dr: SoTN wasn't THAT great, what is wrong with you people about Metroidvania term, and holy crap some of these suggestions.. okay just 2 of them, but still.

Edit: Did I just spent like 40 minutes replying to a post O_O

[Lars]

Drinking game: take a shot every time he says "SOTN"

[Hunter Este]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Local_Wizard:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hunter Este:

Let people who are frustrated with 2+ years of delays vent their frustration, child.

The game never had a release date to be delayed in the first place.

Original Kickstarter listed the estimated delivery date was going to be 2017...but you can certainly ignore that if you want, if that's what it takes to push your narrative.

[Caidezes]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hunter Este:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Local_Wizard:

The game never had a release date to be delayed in the first place.

Original Kickstarter listed the estimated delivery date was going to be 2017...but you can certainly ignore that if you want, if that's what it takes to push your narrative. :Dominated:

You not knowing how Kickstarter works is your own personal problem. Don't try to pretend other people are spreading misinformation when it's you who's trying to "push your narrative".

Then again, odds are it's just bait considering the general tone of your responses.

[Malphas]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hunter Este:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Local_Wizard:

The game never had a release date to be delayed in the first place.

Original Kickstarter listed the estimated delivery date was going to be 2017...but you can certainly ignore that if you want, if that's what it takes to push your narrative. :Dominated:

Lmao. That's your rebuttal? Moving on.

[Brunwolf]

Początkowo opublikowane przez AlloyForce:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Alucard:

post

Chasm- No. Just no. Never again.

On a more serious note I haven't checked chasm in awhile, it might've been improved since, but the basic mechanics are too similar to Castlevania that it feels repetitive. Crafting is boring, RNG locations aren't as unique as advertised, and a lot of sluggish feeling on launch due to design choices. Who knows, MAYBE it gotten better, but last time I was on the forums there it feels like the devs are still in touch with anyone who says anything REMOTELY good about the game so it might just be desperation.

Tl;dr: SoTN wasn't THAT great, what is wrong with you people about Metroidvania term, and holy crap some of these suggestions.. okay just 2 of them, but still.

Edit: Did I just spent like 40 minutes replying to a post O_O

But u do realize that the post author is a huge fan of SoTN? Therefore the similarity in gameplay is something really good.. As it was for me. I would definitely recommend to SoTN fans.

I forgot to mention Rogue Legacy, super fun too. Different in many ways but great fun.

[Luna ~]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Local_Wizard:

This game will not be like SotN. Get over it.

This super hard.

[ElectroRanger]

Początkowo opublikowane przez brunobottegarj:

Początkowo opublikowane przez AlloyForce:

Chasm- No. Just no. Never again.

On a more serious note I haven't checked chasm in awhile, it might've been improved since, but the basic mechanics are too similar to Castlevania that it feels repetitive. Crafting is boring, RNG locations aren't as unique as advertised, and a lot of sluggish feeling on launch due to design choices. Who knows, MAYBE it gotten better, but last time I was on the forums there it feels like the devs are still in touch with anyone who says anything REMOTELY good about the game so it might just be desperation.

Tl;dr: SoTN wasn't THAT great, what is wrong with you people about Metroidvania term, and holy crap some of these suggestions.. okay just 2 of them, but still.

Edit: Did I just spent like 40 minutes replying to a post O_O

But u do realize that the post author is a huge fan of SoTN? Therefore the similarity in gameplay is something really good.. As it was for me. I would definitely recommend to SoTN fans.

I forgot to mention Rogue Legacy, super fun too. Different in many ways but great fun.

Like i said, it mightve gotten better, but i just had bland impressions is all im saying. As mentioned, SoTN is overrated sometimes imo, just because similar doesnt mean good

[Horace Pinker]

you can play symphony of the night , and i think the other game in it's package is the sega genesis castlevania game, on psn if you have a ps4. other ways too, grabbed that on my pro though and it runs pretty well considering it's on a 4k and still looked good.

[S_Jake]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mastodon Lion Thunderzord:

you can play symphony of the night , and i think the other game in it's package is the sega genesis castlevania game, on psn if you have a ps4. other ways too, grabbed that on my pro though and it runs pretty well considering it's on a 4k and still looked good.

Rondo of Blood was originally released on the Turbografx 16. The Genesis/Megadrive Castlevania was Castlevania Bloodlines.

[wyattnr]

in Metroid Prime years, not much of a wait

[Your Cat From 1000m Away]

People will be like:
It took too long to release: "I want to play it now, now !!! I demand it !".
It took too short to release: "This game is half-baked, not even enjoyable, refund".

Beware what you want :(