anyone else have paving roads impossible to maintain?

[DevRaiden]

so as title says anyone else have this problem ? like i dont even have HUGE city its like 200ish people but paving roads always not enough i made 7 of those buildings for paving and i have bunch of stones but my roads that i selected to be paved are still not fully paved even after hours of real time and if i tell them to stop paving all roads are gone in like few mins , is this a bug or what cus its not realistic at all i mean not even close to realistic how fast they are gone

[Panzer Snyder]

Yeah. The roads are not great system. Comes in very patchy

[ZANDARNDD]

Yeah, it's dumb. What you want to do mechanically is literally just draw a paving dot right on top of the house you want to be affected by paving so that a citizen will move in and renovate. Under the hood, it's just the patrol mechanic again but at the cost of endless stone. Aesthetically, I gave up on this mechanic for now to learn the rest of the game, but it would probably take cheating or creative mode to make it work.

[DevRaiden]

Originally posted by ZANDARNDD:

Yeah, it's dumb. What you want to do mechanically is literally just draw a paving dot right on top of the house you want to be affected by paving so that a citizen will move in and renovate. Under the hood, it's just the patrol mechanic again but at the cost of endless stone. Aesthetically, I gave up on this mechanic for now to learn the rest of the game, but it would probably take cheating or creative mode to make it work.

Yeah hope they change it its so unreal i have 5 stone mines and 6 stone huts and its not enough for a town of 500 people to sustain roads no matter what and thats just half my town of 1000+ people atm

[Ellorien]

It is absolutely impossible, at least in my experience. One would think a stone-paved road (those roads last for centuries, think of Roman roads, for example) would be durable but it disintegrates within days. I initially thought that once you pave a road it would remain like that and perhaps can be improved with something better. Nope. Silly me, played too many other games that do just that and expected the same here. This disappearing stone mechanic completely ruins the game for me.

I don't even have citizens, just a couple of commoners' homes upgraded to a higher density. With two stone camps I have no stone now. What is not wasted on the so-called pavement is consumed by the stone masons, and I keep getting the message that a house is about to degrade.

Any idea if the issue is ever going to be addressed?

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by DevRaiden:

... is this a bug or what cus ...

Originally posted by Ellorien:

Any idea if the issue is ever going to be addressed?

It's hard telling not knowing.

There's no official word on how it's even supposed to work and what our expectations should be, so it may be functioning as designed for all we know. There's nothing on the short-term roadmap, at least.

---

To the title though, yes, it's actual literal impossible to pave an entire city -- even a small city. It may be that the devs intend for only a few key houses to be paved, because that seems to be about all we can manage right now.

[Ellorien]

That means the Manor house where Lord X lives, with all the important sub buildings, the churches etc. are perfectly okay with the dirt roads but COMMONERS working as butchers and patrollers must have a fancy paved driveway, right?

[Wantoomany]

Originally posted by Ellorien:

That means the Manor house where Lord X lives, with all the important sub buildings, the churches etc. are perfectly okay with the dirt roads but COMMONERS working as butchers and patrollers must have a fancy paved driveway, right?

Why would you pave where you commoners or serfs live? Paved roads are ONLY required for citizens. Make a tiny little citizen enclave and pave only that. You do not, and should not pave your entire city.

Its a control mechanic, think of less like paving and more like a fancy tool to use to designate where you want the rich people to live.

[Ellorien]

Exactly. I don’t even have citizens, never promoted anyone. Two houses upgraded to higher density WITHOUT any citizens living in them. In the previous game a whole bunch of them upgraded and the commoners started leaving in droves because there was no paved roads while I did not even have the pav building or citizens to begin with and did not anticipate anything of the sort: the game provides no explanation whatsoever.

Do you not see the problem?

As soon as a commoner house becomes higher density (after you foolishly provide fortification and patrols as suggested by the game), the inhabitants must have the paved roads regardless of whether they are citizens or commoners. You have no control over which house decides to upgrade. Unless you patrol specifically one very small area, I guess? Because patrolling is what’s causing all these problems.
So, you control the first upgrade to a house suited for a commoner by just placing a small cheap decor item. But if you don’t wish to upgrade to a higher density just yet you must avoid fortifications and especially patrols. Does it sound like good design?

So, here is my take:

1. Without citizens there should be no upgrades to houses whatsoever, regardless of how many great amenities the area provides, just like a hovel won’t upgrade until you promote someone to commoner, regardless of the existent beautification,
2. The “once tasted” then “must have” mechanic must be scrapped, it’s awful,
3. Paved roads must remain paved, period.

[Ellorien]

And it goes even beyond the paved roads. Patrols cause all sorts of problems. A simple higher density house ( for serfs) must be 100% patrolled by commoners ( I have several patrolling this area) or it would degrade.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3431877493

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Ellorien:

As soon as a commoner house becomes higher density (after you foolishly provide fortification and patrols as suggested by the game), the inhabitants must have the paved roads regardless of whether they are citizens or commoners. You have no control over which house decides to upgrade. Unless you patrol specifically one very small area, I guess? Because patrolling is what’s causing all these problems.
So, you control the first upgrade to a house suited for a commoner by just placing a small cheap decor item. But if you don’t wish to upgrade to a higher density just yet you must avoid fortifications and especially patrols. Does it sound like good design?

What are you talking about?

Quality and Density are different upgrade paths, not mutually inclusive, and completely controllable.

A High Density Medium Quality house doesn't need paved roads. It is specifically and exclusively so a Citizen can move in that you would pave it.

[Wantoomany]

Originally posted by Ellorien:

1. Without citizens there should be no upgrades to houses whatsoever, regardless of how many great amenities the area provides, just like a hovel won’t upgrade until you promote someone to commoner, regardless of the existent beautification,

That is already the case. Without citizens commoners will not upgrade their houses. You either had a citizen and didnt know or you had a really odd bug.

[Ellorien]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Originally posted by Ellorien:

As soon as a commoner house becomes higher density (after you foolishly provide fortification and patrols as suggested by the game), the inhabitants must have the paved roads regardless of whether they are citizens or commoners. You have no control over which house decides to upgrade. Unless you patrol specifically one very small area, I guess? Because patrolling is what’s causing all these problems.
So, you control the first upgrade to a house suited for a commoner by just placing a small cheap decor item. But if you don’t wish to upgrade to a higher density just yet you must avoid fortifications and especially patrols. Does it sound like good design?

What are you talking about?

Quality and Density are different upgrade paths, not mutually inclusive, and completely controllable.

A High Density Medium Quality house doesn't need paved roads. It is specifically and exclusively so a Citizen can move in that you would pave it.

I am talking about my experience, what else? When the game tells me that the house needs paved roads or it is about to degrade, what exactly the game is talking about, in your opinion? I have many COMMONERS leaving the town in my previous game because of these roads (after the houses upgraded to medium density). ACCORDING TO THE MESSAGE i was given by the game, the reason was 'no paved roads.'

In my current game nobody left but I was monitoring so the moment they started complaining about roads I provided these roads (one serf and four commoners in that medium density house). They stopped complaining about the roads (for now) and at the same house is complaining about patrols, same as the serfs in the screenshots above.

[Wantoomany]

I have my town separate into class districts. Basically a serf area, a commoner area, and a citizen area. With a little bit overlap to maintain employment. I've only paved one area and its working just fine.

Serfs. No pavement, no problems
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3431891325

Commoners. A tiny bit of pavement by the church. Its not even marked, but for some reason it got paved anyhow. Still no houses where they shouldnt be, no random upgrades or downgrades.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3431891440

Citizens.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3431891538

Its working fine.

[Ellorien]

Originally posted by Wantoomany:

Originally posted by Ellorien:

1. Without citizens there should be no upgrades to houses whatsoever, regardless of how many great amenities the area provides, just like a hovel won’t upgrade until you promote someone to commoner, regardless of the existent beautification,

That is already the case. Without citizens commoners will not upgrade their houses. You either had a citizen and didnt know or you had a really odd bug.

Yes, hopefully just a bug. I will see if it returns. I am keeping an eye on this. My average happiness is 107%, 159 residents. No citizens.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Ellorien:

Originally posted by Maehlice:

What are you talking about?

Quality and Density are different upgrade paths, not mutually inclusive, and completely controllable.

A High Density Medium Quality house doesn't need paved roads. It is specifically and exclusively so a Citizen can move in that you would pave it.

I am talking about my experience, what else? When the game tells me that the house needs paved roads or it is about to degrade, what exactly the game is talking about, in your opinion? I have many COMMONERS leaving the town in my previous because of these roads (after the houses upgraded to medium density). ACCORDING TO THE MESSAGE i was given by the game, the reason being 'no paved roads.'

In my current game nobody left but I was monitoring so the moment they started complaining about roads I provided these roads (one serf and four commoners in that medium density house). They stopped complaining about the roads (for now) and at the same house is complaining about patrols, same as the serfs in the screenshots above.

I'm not questioning your experience. I'm questioning your understanding of it, because I don't think what's happening is happening because of why you think it's happening.

If a (once-paved) High-Quality house is threatening to downgrade, it's only because a Citizen lives there.

So your statement that ...

As soon as a commoner house becomes higher density, the inhabitants must have the paved

... doesn't make sense, because a "commoner" house refers to its quality -- medium in that case. Upgrading to higher density has nothing to do with who lives in it. A Citizen will only attempt to move in if all other conditions are already met -- Paved in this case.

And while I'm certain I haven't seen every happiness event in the game, I feel like 'No paved roads' isn't one of them. Happiness events I've seen have so far only been tied to villagers' Happiness needs or actionable events -- like fairs, taxes, and the levy.

A house can certainly "complain" about losing Quality and Density requirements, but that's just the house. The only reason I can see a Commoner leaving the village after an event like that is because of a Density downgrade which resulted in no more housing vacancy which led to a stack of housing shortage events on those Commoners who are now homeless.

Screenshot or it din't happen, lol.