Pricing in trading - logical?

[lembos-hauser]

Hi Guys, a quick question according to pricing in trading.

It doesnt seem very logical to me, that tier one goods, like iron ore or wheat, are way more expensive than the final product like tools or bread.

Dont get me wrong, the absolute listing price is lower of course.

But for 5 bread you need 12 wheat, and therefore 12 wheat are way more expensive than just buying 5 bread - and you still have to pay for the building upkeep to process the wheat.

The same for tools. For 1 tool you need 4 iron ore - price difference is noticable plus you need expensive buildings and coal.

Shouldnt it be the other way around?

[Zarubine]

Yes indeed. Another example is cloth/clothing. You can buy cloth for 4g and sell clothes for 2g. 1 cloth makes 2 clothes meaning 0 profit (and an actual loss if you factor in building upkeep).

Usually in these kind of games buying raw materials, then turning them into refined items to sell is a way to make a little profit. Especially early on when you don't have enough cash flow and/or population to set up expensive production chains.

Considering this and the actual items available for sale/purchase from each of the trading towns, it seems to me trade in this game is merely an afterthought rather than an integral part of the game.

[lembos-hauser]

Originally posted by Zarubine:

Usually in these kind of games buying raw materials, then turning them into refined items to sell is a way to make a little profit. Especially early on when you don't have enough cash flow and/or population to set up expensive production chains.

EXACTLY!!! I wanted to do this or at least save SOME cash by importing raw items, but dude no way...

In an event of low food it is cheaper to buy bread instead of the wheat and keep my machinery running...

[Daerious]

Originally posted by lembos-hauser:

It doesn't seem very logical to me, that tier one goods, like iron ore or wheat, are way more expensive than the final product like tools or bread.

You cannot sell most of the raw resources like wheat, milk, wool, wood, stone, coal, iron ore, and quartz. Furthermore, depending on the trade routes that you have unlocked, there maybe some semi-processed resources that cannot be sold like flour.

Just like taxes are a coin source; trading is a coin sink. Since the game is not an economic simulator, it often provides multiple methods for the players to achieve their objectives when it comes to resources and final products. At the start of the game, you do not have the infrastructure to manufacture your own tools; however, if they were priced logically taking into consideration all the raw materials (i.e. iron, iron ore, coal and wood) plus all the production processes, they would be way too expensive.

Trading with other settlements provides you with the option of what materials to acquire which will supplement the production from your own hamlet, village, city, or kingdom. But note that the trading should not be considered an open market; each settlement decides what and how much they need as well as what and how much they have in surplus and, therefore, the prices are set accordingly.

Yes, it is true that from Myddle you can purchase wheat for 3 coin and bread for 4 coin which seems illogical but wheat can also be used in the making of beer. Not to mention the simple fact that there is a trade quantity limit and your settlement might require more bread than you can buy outright.

Obviously, I would not recommend that you purchase wheat if you are only in need of bread since it is not at all cost efficient. I would advise likewise with the other final products and raw materials. However, that said, there have been times when I have briefly purchased raw resources to supplement my settlement's production. This usually happens when my settlement's demand for the resource outstrips its current supply. This trade in raw resources only lasts until I have upgraded my production / collection accordingly.

A final thought, the trade pricing is not the only thing illogical. Examine how many of the final products and raw materials are perishable. To be a realistic medieval simulator, there are many aspects of the game that would have to be changed.

But to each their own...

[lembos-hauser]

Originally posted by Daerious:

(...)

Thank you for your long and deliberate answer.

Originally posted by Daerious:

A final thought, the trade pricing is not the only thing illogical. Examine how many of the final products and raw materials are perishable. To be a realistic medieval simulator, there are many aspects of the game that would have to be changed.

But to each their own...

It is not about illogiaclity - of that works exits. Sure my title uses logical, but my point is:

Buying wheat and processing it into 1 bread should be cheaper than buying 1 finished bread. The same with tools, clothing, and every other high tier product.

I dont need to make profit in buying raws and selling the same production lines products.

I just want the above: 12 wheat HAVE to be cheaper than 5 bread.

PS: the only way you can make profit is buying boar and selling meat.

[jwinter]

Sometimes finished product can be cheaper than input resources that are traded IRL. You can factor ease of transportation, local labor cost and politics (tariffs)

[lembos-hauser]

Originally posted by jwinter:

Sometimes finished product can be cheaper than input resources that are traded IRL. You can factor ease of transportation, local labor cost and politics (tariffs)

Yeah, but as DAERIOUS said, it is not a economic simulator. I am aware, that if you would buy tons of iron, you get a discount, if you have a big factory in china, that you save money at a single product - yes, that is common sense.

But it is also common sense in such games to at least save some money through buying raw and process them on my own.

[jwinter]

This type of games usually do trading this way - you can sell excess items for some extra little cash and in emegrency buy a few items you are missing for a lot. This forces you to produce everything and build production chains. If you could just spam a few products and get everything else by trading that would be boring. Maybe check games like Patrician or Port Royale if you like trading games. But generally in that times doing what you suggest didn't work because of transportation costs were simply too huge prior canals+boats and railway so you would trade only high value finished products since anything was cheaper to produce locally.

[lembos-hauser]

Originally posted by jwinter:

This type of games usually do trading this way

I cant really recall it by facts, but I played tons of games like this and I am pretty pretty pretty sure that buying raw materials where always cheaper than buying the final product.

Originally posted by jwinter:

This forces you to produce everything and build production chains. If you could just spam a few products and get everything else by trading that would be boring.

Untrue. Buying can still be more expensive than producing. I am talking about the ratio within buying - do you get it? The wheat I need to buy for 1 bread is WAY more expensive thant just buying 1 bread.

Originally posted by jwinter:

Maybe check games like Patrician or Port Royale if you like trading games.

Thanks for the advice. I played Patrician III for like 5 million hours and I am more than aware that this is a completly different game. But again: I am not talking about trading mechanics, being dynamik or changing demands and prices. I am talking about the ratio of prices of raw and refined goods.

Thats just not great.