Is the City Market worth it?

[Maehlice]

As just a storage building, a City Market is super efficient and can be a great replacement for some Warehouses -- especially since it functions as a combination warehouse/granary with twice the worker count.

But on the Market side? Sheesh. It's way too expensive compared to a Village Market:

I can maintain 10 Food Stalls in a Village Market for the same upkeep cost as just one at a City Market.

Only the Luxury Good Stalls are a 'good deal' being only 1.67 times more expensive for twice the storage. Common Goods Stalls are 'okay' at 2.5 times the upkeep.

I get that Foundation is supposed to be more of a creative builder, so I get that it kinda doesn't matter ... but still ... like, really?

[Bored Peon]

In my opinion they are absolutely worth it.
- They take up less space than that many tents.
- That 60 storage capacity is amazing with on site storage is amazing for high populations. A normal market stall is worth about 50-60 population before you start getting missed needs. That 60 capacity with 200 storage makes it able to serve hundreds.
- Having the transporters that fetch resources and stock is great because it reduces the time market vendors are away from their stalls.
- It is really cool how customization they are being a monument so you aint stuck with the same tents over and over.

As for the difference in game play. I had a small outpost of about 35 serfs. I tried the two tents, one for berries, one for meat, well berries kept running out (this was how I noticed the vendor getting from a gathering hut mentioned in feedback.) This was causing about 5-6 serfs miss the rustic food need. So I tried adding a fish stall since I had a fisherman in the outpost. That did not work either because fishing output is pathetic.
Once I put the city market and only set up fish, berries, and meat with tents I never had another issue.

[Doc_Hotpants]

The stalls in the city market also hold 60, not just 10 or 30. I find them incredibly helpful. Just passed 500 villagers in my game, and I don't want to be without the city markets. They can also be seemlessly combined with the tavern or watchtowers.

Yes, they are expensive to build and maintain but I think they are worth it. At the point when you can afford to build it, I think it's easy enough to pay for it all afterward.

And the Belfry adds 25% happiness forever in its area of influence, of course.

[Doc_Hotpants]

Sorry, one more post on this, just to show the versatility and efficiency

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3432210300

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3432211112

[Grimtorn]

From a pure monetary point of view it may seem expensive.
Money is a non-issue after the early game tho.

For dense high pop areas it is absolutely great as Peon allrdy stated.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Doc_Hotpants:

They can also be seemlessly combined with the tavern or watchtowers.

I combined my belfry with a church, lol.

[Doc_Hotpants]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Doc_Hotpants:

They can also be seemlessly combined with the tavern or watchtowers.

I combined my belfry with a church, lol.

I combined it with a public lounge :-) The options are practically limitless!

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Grimtorn:

From a pure monetary point of view it may seem expensive.
Money is a non-issue after the early game tho.

For dense high pop areas it is absolutely great as Peon allrdy stated.

I keep forgetting this. Usually by 100 pop I don't even know what to do with all the gold anymore. I'm overthinking things again.

---

All good points. Real estate is definitely a solid concern. Thanks all for keeping me straight, lol.

[Dilts36]

The City Market is totally worth it!
Put 2 next to each other with a church and tavern on each end and its a perfect city setup.

[28rommel]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

In my opinion they are absolutely worth it.
- They take up less space than that many tents.
- That 60 storage capacity is amazing with on site storage is amazing for high populations. A normal market stall is worth about 50-60 population before you start getting missed needs. That 60 capacity with 200 storage makes it able to serve hundreds.
- Having the transporters that fetch resources and stock is great because it reduces the time market vendors are away from their stalls.
- It is really cool how customization they are being a monument so you aint stuck with the same tents over and over.

As for the difference in game play. I had a small outpost of about 35 serfs. I tried the two tents, one for berries, one for meat, well berries kept running out (this was how I noticed the vendor getting from a gathering hut mentioned in feedback.) This was causing about 5-6 serfs miss the rustic food need. So I tried adding a fish stall since I had a fisherman in the outpost. That did not work either because fishing output is pathetic.
Once I put the city market and only set up fish, berries, and meat with tents I never had another issue.

For higher populations that City Market is worth it.

But if you were experiencing problems with stalls w/tents with just a population of 50-60 then that must have been something you were doing wrong. Maybe your setup with logistics in the movement of those goods was done incorrectly or in a non-efficient manner. I have a population twice that size, and have no issues with my stalls w/ tents.

Also, the stalls can act like a monument, as long as you add to it, and not create a new monument when adding additional stalls. And also, market vendors do not need to be at their stalls for the good to be sold to villagers.

[Manserk]

60 items is a killer feature. But what makes it very good is that the refill of the stand is much faster than a regular market + storage

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by lembos-hauser:

"This game is about beauty, not optimization."

Thats all you need to know.

For true! I get wrapped up in logistics and optimization and min-maxxing and ... and ... somewhere amongst those trees is a forest I gotta find.

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Originally posted by lembos-hauser:

"This game is about beauty, not optimization."

Thats all you need to know.

For true! I get wrapped up in logistics and optimization and min-maxxing and ... and ... somewhere amongst those trees is a forest I gotta find.

Tbf, I like the logistics to be logical.

Originally posted by 28rommel:

Thank you captain403 and Phytoseiulus Persimilis for your input.

+1 more person to encouraging you to block the peon.
I'm just glad we don't have 'anti-woke' people flooding the forums like some games, it's really difficult to have genuine discussions when 9/10 posts are people trolling.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

As for the difference in game play. I had a small outpost of about 35 serfs. I tried the two tents, one for berries, one for meat, well berries kept running out (this was how I noticed the vendor getting from a gathering hut mentioned in feedback.) This was causing about 5-6 serfs miss the rustic food need. So I tried adding a fish stall since I had a fisherman in the outpost. That did not work either because fishing output is pathetic.
Once I put the city market and only set up fish, berries, and meat with tents I never had another issue.

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate / voice of reason and say that correlation is not causation.

The City Market may have solved your issue in that case and is very likely better logistically.

But to say that a Village Market with single stalls can only keep up with 50-60 villagers is patently false.

Before I shelved my last city, all 180 villagers (143 Serfs, 37 Commoners) were being supported by a single Village Market of just 6 Market Stalls -- one for each resource. (Only Cheese was having trouble keeping up, because I lacked sufficient production.)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3433368530

It's not the plane but the pilot in the seat.

And no, I'm not in favour of blocking you, in case anyone is wondering. I think blocking people over disagreements is lame. If it mattered that much to me, I would just ignore and disengage. Baby with the bathwater and all that.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate / voice of reason and say that correlation is not causation.

This is your post correct?
https://steamcommunity.com/app/690830/discussions/2/599645206077271358/?tscn=1740233148#c599645206077315108

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

So basically instead of grabbing a full group of 30 from the granary like 30 feet farther the market vendor is grabbing 5 at a time and running out constantly.

To the topic though, YES. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YES! It's frustrating how they sometimes miss the forest for the trees.

IDK how it would affect optimization and processing, but a simple quantity-to-distance ratio could be used to prioritize the available storages within their range so they always choose the 'optimal' location.

That was the EXACT issue I mentioned.
You agreed it was an issue.
Yet now you are trying to blame the problem on me instead.

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Before I shelved my last city...

Was that city on challenging difficulty? Yes or no?
Notice how the people intent on blaming me ALWAYS forget that major detail.

Originally posted by Maehlice:

But to say that a Village Market with single stalls can only keep up with 50-60 villagers is patently false.

How do you figure that?
Market stall has a capacity of 30 customers.

Now using the same exact game mechanic, have a need walk to a location and fill it:
If a church has a seating capacity of 30, what happens once you have not increased the size by the time you reach 50-60 villagers?
You get a shortage and that is WITHOUT losing time to go restock.
So why would it be any different for a market tent with a capacity of 30?

It has been said for YEARS by MANY game veterans market stalls only serve 50-60 before you need to place a second one with the same good. Do I really need to go dig up an old post to prove that?

Just because newer players have not noticed the issue yet does not mean the issue does not exist.

[28rommel]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

... A bunch of private profile people derailing the topic to bash me only proves my reason for being prejudiced against private profiles.

Are you kidding? There are about 4 users here, who do not know each other, are completely independent individuals in their experiences with you, and you are going to say "they must all be wrong about me and my abrasive behavior," and you are the innocent angel ?
Are you listening to yourself ?

What possible reason would four different individuals decide to "just make stuff up" about you and "bash" you? The answer is none, and that is not what happened.
I think you have some "you" issues to figure out? It's not always someone else when we have problems. Sometimes you need to look at yourself, and come to the conclusion that the error/fault came from within. Most especially when you are hearing the criticism from multiple people in your life.