what's the deal with braking in a rwd?

[Arikima]

Hi. Before anyone yells at me, no I don't have the game on steam. but I do on ps4 and I am using a logitech g29 wheel. a new one and not a refurbished one. But I am having a very serious issue with braking in rwd cars.

no matter how faint of an input I make, braking completely throws any and all ideas of steering out of the window. even if I barely press on it, steering becomes so unresponsive and slow it might as well just be turned off. I first noticed it in braking zone for the 4 right after a straight and a crest in Kopina, leczna county Poland. The turn is borderline impossible for me unless I ignore the throttle once getting onto the straight and use the crest and engine braking to slow me down.

Yes. I know you don't brake through the whole turn and you do have to slow down beforehand. But you're supposed to brake before it and then position the car for a slide just before the entrance of the corner, right? Well I can't. And looking up youtube video after youtube video of this exact turn, I am doing it almost perfectly identical to these people that do it flawlessly, yet my car just refuses to turn until it's too late and I'm hitting that small cliff and taking away any chance of competing with the ai, or having a functional radiator and headlights.

I have also noticed another issue with rwd's, especially the h2 rwd cars, and that is braking has another severe issue. And that braking, even lightly, will throw you into an unrecoverable spin at random. it happens equally on flat asphalt straights as it does on bumpy dirt roads. regardless of how gentle or aggressive with the throttle I am.

If there is a very basic mechanic to the game or some intuitive thing you're supposed to be doing that the game and tutorials all fail to mention that I am just not getting, I'd like to know. These things are more unyieldy than my 02 ranger was with slick tired on muddy asphalt in heavy rain. (story for another time)

And if it isn't obvious, I am a little upset at this. Because I am not having fun after putting a real life week dedicated into trying to learn how to drive these things and still failing miserably. Using exclusively fwd cars isn't fun anymore because that's all I have been using for a very long time.

[flatdarkmars]

Originally posted by Arikima:

no matter how faint of an input I make, braking completely throws any and all ideas of steering out of the window. even if I barely press on it, steering becomes so unresponsive and slow it might as well just be turned off.

Sounds like you either have a brake calibration issue, or should just turn ABS on.

Originally posted by Arikima:

I am doing it almost perfectly identical to these people that do it flawlessly, yet my car just refuses to turn until it's too late

It's unlikely that your game has a different physics model than everyone else's, so either you *aren't* doing it identical to others, or you have a calibration issue with either your controller or your foot. If your car isn't turning, your brakes are almost certainly locking up, which again means either a calibration issue, or just turn ABS on.

Originally posted by Arikima:

braking, even lightly, will throw you into an unrecoverable spin at random.

Sounds like you need to go forward with your brake bias a bit.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having a frustrating time, but since other people can drive okay, I think you have to conclude that the issue is either with your control setup or yourself, and work to address the problem. A lot of the RWD cars do have default setups that are, in my opinion, a bit on the aggressive side. You can add rear toe-in, soften the rear suspension, move the brake bias forward, and other tuning techniques to tame them.

[rob_every05]

The braking feel is the single biggest criticism of this game once the FFB was fixed and the DLC model

there simply is NO braking feel.

I don't know how to fix it really, you just sort of get used to it.

But is poor beyond words.

[Nero]

Thats what RWD cars are known for ...but you can tune them so they wont spin that much.
Loosen up the LSD differential to the first number above 0% (like 6%)
usually the RWD cars start to spin because of the differential

[lich0]

You're locking up the brakes, simple as that. Calibrate the brake pedal.

Originally posted by rob_every05:

The braking feel is the single biggest criticism of this game once the FFB was fixed and the DLC model

there simply is NO braking feel.

I don't know how to fix it really, you just sort of get used to it.

But is poor beyond words.

I wonder what is that 'braking feel' you're talking about. You don't know yourself, do you?

[rob_every05]

I simply relate it to other games I play when there is a sound or something maybe a feel incorporated into the FFB that makes it obvious or something that the front brakes have locked.

There is NOTHING of that sort in this game and some might not miss it, but having played these sort of games for a very long time, I do.

It doesn't hamper me massively, can usually do OK in most events, but it is certainly something missing for me

[ialyrn]

Originally posted by Arikima:

SNIP

Calibrate your wheel in game in the options menu, you need to do this in order to make sure the games works with it properly. The option should be there on console versions, just as it is on the Steam version.

Also, when you first plug in your wheel and it has calibrated itself. Depress all 3 pedals to their 100% travel distance. This is because the wheel self calibrates, the pedals do not. And you need to calibrate the pedals manually by pressing them, each and every time you plug in your wheel. I have a G27, a G920 and a T300RS-GT, and this is the case for the pedals on all 3 of these wheels.

Originally posted by rob_every05:

I simply relate it to other games I play when there is a sound or something maybe a feel incorporated into the FFB that makes it obvious or something that the front brakes have locked.

There is NOTHING of that sort in this game and some might not miss it, but having played these sort of games for a very long time, I do.

It doesn't hamper me massively, can usually do OK in most events, but it is certainly something missing for me

This game does convey the wheels locking up, both audible sounds (screeching on tarmac, and dirt/gravel sort of rubble grinding noise on loose surfaces). There is also feeling in the wheels force feedback to convey this.

I think its about time you post up your full in game wheel settings Rob, as well as your Logitech Profiler settings. Its possible you just have bad force feedback settings. Even a G25, which I believe you said you have in the past, should be able to convey wheel lockup.

[rob_every05]

I am not using anything special, in terms of wheel setups, I use the same stuff in most games.

Not sure why, but it just does not give any feedback when braking, or if it does, very little, no sound either, not even much of a locking brake, that can't be right surely

[lich0]

FFB works as expected when brakes lock up.

Depending on the quality of your audio equipment, you might need to tune the options. IMO setting the dynamic range to high requires Hi-Fi grade equipment and turning up the volume (but I’m a bit deaf so it might be different for others).

From my experience, stereo speakers offer much better sound quality than headphones.

There are a lot of audio effects present: turbo, gearbox, brakes, gravel hitting the car, windshield wipers even. Some are more noticeable in exterior cameras and it also depends on the car.

If you can’t hear any of those, try turning the engine sound lower and experimenting with EQ presets.

[Simon said EAT DUST PLAYER_1 !]

Originally posted by Arikima:

Hi. Before anyone yells at me, no I don't have the game on steam. but I do on ps4 and I am using a logitech g29 wheel. a new one and not a refurbished one. But I am having a very serious issue with braking in rwd cars.

just one or two more thoughts:
braking-technique:
DR2.0 puts a lot more emphasis on weight-shifting and renders vehicle-dynamics more in line with the real world than DR1 did. Which means, depending on how your car is set up you will need to be more precise and / or sensitive with your inputs. If you just come off the throttle and hammer on the brakes with brute force, you might just lock up the rear wheels before you do the front ones making you slide without any grace or control.
In a RWD vehicle this can actually stall the engine when not pushing the clutch in while in-gear. This of course is never a good idea.
So, while it is absolutely true that a conservative line means scrubbing off speed before a turn and rolling onto the throttle in moderation but as early as possible (in a well-balanced front-engined, rear-wheel-drive car even slightly before you clip the apex), one still needs to consider where the weight of the car is shifting to. A "light" rear axle will lock up or lose traction much sooner than when weighted down by the car's mass (e.g. during maximum straight-line acceleration). Transitioning quickly between the two extremes takes some more finesse than in the first game - and that is actually a good thing imho as it portrais reality a little better than before.
Whereas with short wheel-base front-wheel-drive cars you pretty much drive the car "from the front wheels", in a classic front-engined, rear-drive configuration with the gearbox behind the engine, a driveshaft in the middle and a diff in the back, the "static weight" does not reside on the front wheels alone, but gets balanced out through the length of the car more. Rotational mass at the center and rear of the car is increased. So your steering-inputs need to be "re-calibrated" as well as your footwork.

If you have set your ffb at the strong end of the spectrum, maybe you would benefit from tuning that down a couple of notches in order to test if you are running into clipping. This could very well be one major source of disconnect with what is happening in the simulation. Likewise, if you do not feel enough of the initial weight shifting, it might be tuned too light, or some secondary effects might be masking this vital information

Poland is a tricky new location whereas you have lots of wavy ups and downs, deadly trees lining the sides and quite fast possible speeds due to long stretches of near-straight roads. Surface- and camber-changes though will make your day difficult.
Setting the car up with more suspension-travel, meaning slihtly higher ride-height, softened compression-damping and increased rebound-damping can have a positive effect on calming down the ride. And for me personally, less agressive track-alignment and brake-force distribution (66..75% to the front) can help me negotiate those special moments where I happen to set a foot slightly off where I wanted it to go. In Poland or on wet Spanish tarmac I tend to place the brake-force a notch more forward than I would on a fine-weather time-attack type setup around the Nürburgring Nordschleife.

In a rear-drive car, I also tend to not slide each and every turn. Especially in a place like Poland and when I still have to come to terms with the car in question. "Getting into the flow" can come later ... once I build up confidence in the car and my ability to "handle" it.
But once you do build up confidence, You might want to look into the art of braking a car on loose surfaces without relying on ABS. By sliding/wiggeling it ever-so-slightly to give each wheel a fresh piece of road and "dig in" under braking, building up a small heap of gravel/snow in front of each tyre and utilising that to really find the maximum traction for braking possible. Some folks describe this as "using the tyre sidewall" for braking -- in a more extreme adaption.

Then again: mid-engined and rear-engined cars will prove to be yet another cattle of fish alltogether. But the same approach applies: recalibrate your inputs and the feel of your fingertips once again. They are different to what you are used to and react a lot quicker than anything with the engine in the front and need an even "lighter touch" in order to work at their best.

Also keep in mind: A strong LSD can have a profound effect on rear-break-away and overall handling characteristics. Too much diff-braking and you will find your car not even wanting to turn in whilst the wheels are still gripping and rolling through tight bends. But too little and you might lose out on acceleration over rougher ground and slideability. Then there are some older models that simply do not offer any diff-brake and just rely on bog-standard "open differential".

Compromises have to be found and made. And at a certain point, personal preferences outweigh any good advice. But for the basics I truly urge you to sit back and watch Keyitchi Tsuchiya's "Drift Bible" (I might have spelled that name horribly wrong, please don't mind!) where he goes through the various general car blueprints as it applies to drifting (and general car-balance as well as control). A real eye-opener!