Question about physics

[Rhincodon typus]

I have got a problem with the Polo R5. Whenever the revs go down in a corner, the rear comes out and I get a lot of oversteer. Thats enoying because in some fast corners in Finland, Australia and Poland even if I am on full throttle the car cant keep up the revs - for whatever reason. Why is that?

[Simon said EAT DUST PLAYER_1 !]

piston-engines do exhibit compression-losses when coasting. the higher the rpm the more you get.
The solution to your problem? Learn left-foot-braking and keep the right amount of your right foot "in it".
I see this is a re-run of a topic you discussed in december.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/690790/discussions/0/1747892655524286036/#c1747892655524301248
Interesting indeed.

[Simon said EAT DUST PLAYER_1 !]

did you replicate that "trick" in any other R5 car btw?

[ialyrn]

Originally posted by JohnReese:

I have got a problem with the Polo R5. Whenever the revs go down in a corner, the rear comes out and I get a lot of oversteer. Thats enoying because in some fast corners in Finland, Australia and Poland even if I am on full throttle the car cant keep up the revs - for whatever reason. Why is that?

I just had a look at the videos included in that other thread. For starters, you are in too high a gear for the slip angle you are at, you are bogging the engine down because of this. Secondly, you are seriously over cooking it in order to get that reaction in the first place in order to prove a point. The corner on Finland in one of those videos in that other thread, as an example, you dont need to slide the car anywhere near that much on that corner, and you remain in 3rd gear all the way through it. So again, bogging the car down. In fact, you dont need to slide the car at all in that corner. Same goes for the corner you showed it happening on the Kopina stage on Poland.

I drove the Polo R5 last night for the first time, while drunk as a skunk too. Not once did the car react like that. I have to put it down to driver error in your case. Too much slide for the gear you are in at the time. The engine is bogging down because of it, and then there is not enough power to pull back out of the slide you are in.

It almost looks to me like you feel you have to slide the car as much as possible in order for it to be legitimate rally driving, but if that is the case, its a completely wrong assumption on your part. There are corners you do have to slide the car in, however, they are slow speed corners on loose surfaces. You need to make sure you are in a gear that allows you to keep the tires spinning for the slip angle you are at. If you dont, you get the reaction you got in your videos in that other thread. The car bogs down, you have no engine power to pull back out of it.

There are also a lot of other corners where you dont want to slide. Long sweeping corners that are intended to be taken at high speed are corners you never want to drift in. You also dont want to drift to much on tarmac either, as its slower in that situation to do so.

[BLOODandDUST]

" Turn right to go left".

Its all in here: https://youtu.be/_ss9nd-tImc

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by BLOODofaMADMAN:

" Turn right to go left".

Its all in here: https://youtu.be/_ss9nd-tImc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Uox2VSZ8U

[Rhincodon typus]

Originally posted by Simon said EAT DUST PLAYER_1 !:

did you replicate that "trick" in any other R5 car btw?

Not yet, I only drive the Polo in R5.

[Rhincodon typus]

Originally posted by ialyrn:

Originally posted by JohnReese:

I have got a problem with the Polo R5. Whenever the revs go down in a corner, the rear comes out and I get a lot of oversteer. Thats enoying because in some fast corners in Finland, Australia and Poland even if I am on full throttle the car cant keep up the revs - for whatever reason. Why is that?

I just had a look at the videos included in that other thread. For starters, you are in too high a gear for the slip angle you are at, you are bogging the engine down because of this. Secondly, you are seriously over cooking it in order to get that reaction in the first place in order to prove a point. The corner on Finland in one of those videos in that other thread, as an example, you dont need to slide the car anywhere near that much on that corner, and you remain in 3rd gear all the way through it. So again, bogging the car down. In fact, you dont need to slide the car at all in that corner. Same goes for the corner you showed it happening on the Kopina stage on Poland.

I drove the Polo R5 last night for the first time, while drunk as a skunk too. Not once did the car react like that. I have to put it down to driver error in your case. Too much slide for the gear you are in at the time. The engine is bogging down because of it, and then there is not enough power to pull back out of the slide you are in.

It almost looks to me like you feel you have to slide the car as much as possible in order for it to be legitimate rally driving, but if that is the case, its a completely wrong assumption on your part. There are corners you do have to slide the car in, however, they are slow speed corners on loose surfaces. You need to make sure you are in a gear that allows you to keep the tires spinning for the slip angle you are at. If you dont, you get the reaction you got in your videos in that other thread. The car bogs down, you have no engine power to pull back out of it.

There are also a lot of other corners where you dont want to slide. Long sweeping corners that are intended to be taken at high speed are corners you never want to drift in. You also dont want to drift to much on tarmac either, as its slower in that situation to do so.

I wouldnt drive that turn in as I did in the video, it was just made under the purpose of showing my "problem" in a very exaggerated way. My question is: What is the reason, why the engine is bogging down in a slide? I can avoid that problem and I dont want to slide that way. I really only want to know, what the explanation for the engine bogging down is in terms of physics. I repeat: This is not my regular driving style. I appreciate your help, though :)

I am unfortunately not a car mechanic or engineer, but I would very much like to get the mechanism, that slows the engine down.

[ialyrn]

Originally posted by JohnReese:

I wouldnt drive that turn in as I did in the video, it was just made under the purpose of showing my "problem" in a very exaggerated way. My question is: What is the reason, why the engine is bogging down in a slide? I can avoid that problem and I dont want to slide that way. I really only want to know, what the explanation for the engine bogging down is in terms of physics. I repeat: This is not my regular driving style. I appreciate your help, though :)

I am unfortunately not a car mechanic or engineer, but I would very much like to get the mechanism, that slows the engine down.

This is why I said this at the start of my post -

Originally posted by ialyrn:

Secondly, you are seriously over cooking it in order to get that reaction in the first place in order to prove a point.

I know you was driving in an exaggerated way, crystal clear to see.

As for why its happening, its all down to friction. The more sideways you are, the more friction there is, the harder the engine has to work in order to maintain the slide. That friction is simulated in the game. At a certain point, that friction overcomes the power of the engine; especially when you are in such a high gear for the angle of the slide. As in your exaggerated examples on the older thread you have.

If you find yourself in a slide that that, with that much angle, then you need to change down gears to 2nd, and even 1st, in order to maintain the wheels spinning and try to pull out of it. Another solution, is to turn on "clutch override" in the games preferences. This would allow you to clutch kick, even in sequential shift cars. When you are losing control due to lots of angle and the engine bogging down, holding the clutch in can often help you recover far easier than if you was to try and power out of it. Since it disconnects the driven wheels from the engine for as long as the clutch pedal is pressed down.

[Rhincodon typus]

Originally posted by ialyrn:

Originally posted by JohnReese:

I wouldnt drive that turn in as I did in the video, it was just made under the purpose of showing my "problem" in a very exaggerated way. My question is: What is the reason, why the engine is bogging down in a slide? I can avoid that problem and I dont want to slide that way. I really only want to know, what the explanation for the engine bogging down is in terms of physics. I repeat: This is not my regular driving style. I appreciate your help, though :)

I am unfortunately not a car mechanic or engineer, but I would very much like to get the mechanism, that slows the engine down.

This is why I said this at the start of my post -

Originally posted by ialyrn:

Secondly, you are seriously over cooking it in order to get that reaction in the first place in order to prove a point.

I know you was driving in an exaggerated way, crystal clear to see.

As for why its happening, its all down to friction. The more sideways you are, the more friction there is, the harder the engine has to work in order to maintain the slide. That friction is simulated in the game. At a certain point, that friction overcomes the power of the engine; especially when you are in such a high gear for the angle of the slide. As in your exaggerated examples on the older thread you have.

If you find yourself in a slide that that, with that much angle, then you need to change down gears to 2nd, and even 1st, in order to maintain the wheels spinning and try to pull out of it. Another solution, is to turn on "clutch override" in the games preferences. This would allow you to clutch kick, even in sequential shift cars. When you are losing control due to lots of angle and the engine bogging down, holding the clutch in can often help you recover far easier than if you was to try and power out of it. Since it disconnects the driven wheels from the engine for as long as the clutch pedal is pressed down.

Hmm, why does the friction increase when going sideways (I think thats the point that I dont really get)? Thank for your idea with the clutch. I havent thought about using it in that occasion (have done so when close to stalling at a hairpin however).

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by JohnReese:

Originally posted by ialyrn:

This is why I said this at the start of my post -



I know you was driving in an exaggerated way, crystal clear to see.

As for why its happening, its all down to friction. The more sideways you are, the more friction there is, the harder the engine has to work in order to maintain the slide. That friction is simulated in the game. At a certain point, that friction overcomes the power of the engine; especially when you are in such a high gear for the angle of the slide. As in your exaggerated examples on the older thread you have.

If you find yourself in a slide that that, with that much angle, then you need to change down gears to 2nd, and even 1st, in order to maintain the wheels spinning and try to pull out of it. Another solution, is to turn on "clutch override" in the games preferences. This would allow you to clutch kick, even in sequential shift cars. When you are losing control due to lots of angle and the engine bogging down, holding the clutch in can often help you recover far easier than if you was to try and power out of it. Since it disconnects the driven wheels from the engine for as long as the clutch pedal is pressed down.

Hmm, why does the friction increase when going sideways (I think thats the point that I dont really get)? Thank for your idea with the clutch. I havent thought about using it in that occasion (have done so when close to stalling at a hairpin however).

Yes and no.
If you dig the terrain you may get a lot more grip going sideways (maybe even to the point of doing a barrelroll) and at tarmac you may also get so much grip you oversteer to the inside of the turn.
Weight transfer also play a role to it, not only friction.
That is how physics work.

[Rhincodon typus]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by JohnReese:

Hmm, why does the friction increase when going sideways (I think thats the point that I dont really get)? Thank for your idea with the clutch. I havent thought about using it in that occasion (have done so when close to stalling at a hairpin however).

Yes and no.
If you dig the terrain you may get a lot more grip going sideways (maybe even to the point of doing a barrelroll) and at tarmac you may also get so much grip you oversteer to the inside of the turn.
Weight transfer also play a role to it, not only friction.
That is how physics work.

Thank you for your comment

[rob_every05]

In my opinion the physics in this game are based a lot on steering angle.

You can often find that in a bend on the loose where you would easily be power sliding in say 3rd of 4th gear, if you have a lot of lock on and wind it off as it hits a rut or something, it feels like traction control cutting in depending on steering lock, as soon as you wind off a bit of lock the revs pick up and the car feels normal again, even if your trajectory has not altered much.

This is how the old F1 systems used to work it was dependant on lots of thing, but steering lock was one of them, and it certainly feels at times that if you wind on a lot of lock, even in a powerful car, the engine sort of limits itself on occasions when you do so until you wind off the lock again, could also be dependant on the degrees rotation you have I suppose.

Sort of like unturnoffable TC.