What combat/battle system do you prefer?

[Chouchers]

Omega Quintet/Dark Rose Valkyrie
Hyperdimension Neptunia/Fairy Fencer F
record of agarest war/hyperdevotion noire
Cyberdimension neptunia


I prefer Omega Quintet/Dark Rose Valkyrie.

[Tiasmoon]

There's no way of checking, short of seeing an Order Break happening and figuring out what its related to.

Order Break at the start is based on number of monsters alive ( below 3 is typically an order break against skull enemies) , and in some cases specific enemies are guaranteed an order break at the start, regardless of the number of enemies in play. (high level rares come to mind).

One of the other issues with Order Break I forgot to mention, is that enemies can use their full action points, and since they basically have infinite SP/voltage, that means they can use something like 6 EX moves in a row on a double order break. (or the regular turn+ order break)

So you can wipe real easy against an Order Break, and there's just too many ways one is caused.

[NightmareHollow]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

You can get Order Breaked before your first turn, even on a surprise attack.

Is the game easy without them? Well yes, that's why I mentioned they should of used positioning more. It's the reason why Agarest games were still incredibly hard (on highest difficulty) because bosses could do massive party wiping abilities turn after turn, yet you were able to position yourself strategically to prevent a wipe. The only reason Order Break is in the game is because chain linking is too strong without the positional requirements that Agarest had.

But its a completely anti-fun mechanic as well, since there's too many ways it can activate, and what ability or attack they will use is whatever they normally can (which is completely random).

What can trigger an order break:
- defeat of allies
-% hp drop (50%, maybe less on some bosses)
-field break
-after a turn end (can be anyone's, including the monsters own turn, IE: they can order break after their own turn ends)

This means that you'd have to slow kill a bosses group one by one, by which time your getting around to the boss all your outfits are broken and your losing voltage each turn.
Which is not a fun way to do a boss fight.

Skull enemies are even worse, since if you get a group with less then 3 you'll get order breaked right at the start, and they'll spam you with SP break and stats/status debuffs.


I like that they used Agarest mechanics for this game, since Agarest (first 2 anyway, havent played the third game) had the best gameplay. But they balanced it really poorly. Which is pretty ironic, because Agarest also had the most balanced gameplay.

Some or maybe all bosses on advanced also have order break variables at less than either 70 or 80% HP, another one at less than 30% HP, and they also get another one if you kill of most or all of their ADDS. I don't know how accurate my values are, but I did use to keep repeating the Banana Demon, 3 Shampurus and 3 Shampuru Loner boss battle at Meteorological Station and I did often trigger an Order Break when the boss still had more than half HP, and all ADDS still alive, otherwise, I normally use the first turn (with a Song Attack) to set up an overkill on my second turn

[Tiasmoon]

I mentioned defeat of allies before. Also, they order break randomly as well, so its hard to say how much of it is HP related. Given that you cant predict how much damage you will do (bosses have very little health in that regard) its quite possible to half or more a boss just for aoe damage on adds.

I've had a boss end its turn only to order break itself. It would of made more sense if each order break type also caused it to use specific abilities, or if there were otherwise limits to it.

Especially if the EX move the boss uses is loaded with stats debuffs or stuff like SP Break or Voltage Break, even if you survive it makes the fight a pain. And that's on top of the issues Order Break brings due to the clothing damage mechanic.

In itself Order Break isnt even the problem I guess, its just that it shows how poorly balanced the plentora of other systems are.

For example, its almost guaranteed to break all clothes early on and in mid game, and late game mostly. How to counter that? Bring more clothes.
Except clothes are also cosmetic so you'd want to use ones you find good looking. On top of that clothes cost a lot of EP to upgrade, and amps (the main reason to upgrade them) cost even more. So you can't really work with that system due to the incredibly high EP costs related to it.

It also prevents harmonics since you'll likely get +wait, have to clear status/stats debuffs, and on top of that dead characters get their position in the turn queue removed. Which also means you'll have to spend even more time waiting for a setup.

And without a setup an overkill isn't going to happen.

Then there's the large amount of different debuff and status effects that can be applied to your party. Another reason why a boss getting even one more sudden turn can be a problem.


Hence why the whole 1-2 shot is a thing; since otherwise its just a painful grind most of the time.


I mean I agree with you that you just have to learn to work around it, but the whole mechanic shouldnt be in the game to begin with. Instead they should of made more use of the positioning system that's there. Or something.

[Tiasmoon]

Also just a thought, but its possible bosses Order Break when one of their passives activate.

[NightmareHollow]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Also just a thought, but its possible bosses Order Break when one of their passives activate.

Another theory could be that their turn order may play a part, like if you inflict a lot of turn-backs or wait damage, and knock them too far down the pecking order. But yeah there's so many variables that factor into Order Breaks, but now when I think about it, you do have a point about them, how it isn't the mechanic itself but more to do with the RNG regarding the enemies' attacks. If they order break but use a basic attack, that isn't as much of a game changer as when they use scummy skills with Status problems, stat debuffs or wait damage. I mean looking at jegacy or higher budget JRPGs, the type of attacks that enemies and bosses make are normally more strictly scheduled according to turn orders or remaining HPs where their more powerful skills are locked until those prerequisites gets triggered.

[Tiasmoon]

Yeah, it's just the overload on everything that can happen with an Order Break. If there were less nasty attacks it would already be less painful.

Hopefully at some point they can go back to the days of Agarest when they were better at balancing boss fights. The actual combat systems are quite interesting, they just suffer from poor balancing.

[doo]

Well, to be honest, Order break idea by itself isn't that terrible of an idea if they don't make it to the point that it can be spammed which can lead to my entire party wiped out without any chance to recover. If it is something just to interupt strategy, or to simply make my chance of doing combos harder, then that would still be a very good idea and I would not mind it. They could even have kept it this way except remove the order-break-even-before-my-first-turn. :\

[TheCrowGoesCaw]

Personally I like the Fairy Fencer battle system. It's straightforward and to the point, just simple attacking, magic and a powered-up form.

[ingosupercute]

Personally, I think they have gone a bit over the top with Omega Quintet. There are just too many different things to consider and permanently weight up against each other, not to mention become aware of first. The amount of time I've spend consulting the ingame help, looking at the stats, trying to make sense of the disc tech tree and reading up upon things on the net is just too high. Even though I am progressing with the game I often question myself wether I was doing things correctly at that point or not.

In contradiction to that neither in any Neptunia game nor in Fairy Fencer did I spend more than five minutes looking at things. Building combos in the first few Nep games was pretty much learning by doing, in FF and VII the ingame help explained how to get damage bonus and one was able to figure it out afterwards. First few Nep games had a guard gaunche, VII and FF did not. Sega Hard Girls made it so ExE could only be used during fever time. Some games deplete your SP post battle, other don't. What I'm trying to say is: You had your little differences to consider jumping from one title to another, but never was it really much of a deal.

This does not mean I'm really unhappy with Omega Quintet. It just seems pointless to make things more complicated since one isn't getting anything out of it. Except maybe the feeling of having understood and mastered a game concept - if that's what makes you happy.

I guess my favourite system was either HDN RB2 or RB3

[PureRok]

Neptune vs Sega Hard Girls. Got rid of the pretense of depth and gave us what all of the other systems basically boil down to: "Press X repeatedly." and added "Hold X to hit harder."

[ingosupercute]

Originally posted by PureRok:

Neptune vs Sega Hard Girls. Got rid of the pretense of depth and gave us what all of the other systems basically boil down to: "Press X repeatedly." and added "Hold X to hit harder."

Lol yeah, and on top of that: Press a lot of X every fight because we gonna limit your SP and fever gain so you don't spam skills all the time to clear fast.

[Unyaa]

The order break is a pain. Got to one major boss. Thought I was getting wiped out by the boss. Turns out it was me doing an AOE attack on a bunch of little guys, and I triggered order break on each one. It ended up being better taking out the little guys in one shot, or one at a time.
I forget, but this often ends up being the best strategy. Don't allow them to counter The boss ended up being easier.

One thing that sometimes happens is that an order break happens when you defeat one enemy, and another enemy hits you with it.

I don't mind it occasionally, but order break can be really cheap. I'm playing on max difficulty, and the only really hard part is managing the order breaks.