SPOILER ALERT: Turn Memories of player quest in tutorial level.

[JefTheReaper]

So I'm likely not the first one to notice, while playing the "memories of player" sequence, it clearly plays like a tutorial and gives all the information you would likely get at the start of a game.

Leave alone finding the sequence was so out of place as a random memory shard in Anor Londo.

If anything its very likely this was meant to be the actual tutorial level at some point, and if not I still find it strange this was not done so, as it clearly fits as the perfect "welcome to this world, this is the basic information you need to know about this place".

Can't the game just be patched to move this entire sequence to the start of the game and treat it as the tutorial level? (with some minor changes of course, reducing the battle difficulty slightly, giving the player a unique blood code with already maxed abilities that he/she likely had before their blood code was broken)

Its also not like the whole memory loss thing might be relevant either way.
Even if the player knows all that happens in that level, its not like a fresh player will be able to piece everything together with just that information.

[Mystokai]

Because beginning of the game was meant to be like a ''mystery of why you are here'',
and early on, Louis brings up ''memory loss'' topic... which most of the times will raise players curiosity of what actually happened...and why do you have that power to absorb vestiges.

It is probably true that... this particular vestige kinda seemed out of place and could have been placed in a better spot (and in NG+ it is irrelevant, and can be skipped)

And I dont know about you, but I think it was pretty obvious what was happening in Memories of Player...

[Unslaadahsil]

I don't think they'll ever do that, for a very simple reason: the sequence is the reveal of who killed the Queen.
Now, because I'm almost a pathological explorer in souls-like games, I spent a lot of time running around and kind of grinding all over the place before the cathedral of blood. And throughout the whole time, I felt like the game was not a new game, but a sequel. A lot of characters talk of stuff you have no idea about for the first quarter of the game, acting almost as if this is a sequel to a previous game in which the collapse and operation queenslayer happened. I mean, try to imagine another game, in the same style, that starts with the great collapse and has your character as a revenant during operation queenslayer, fighting your way trough a collapsed city all the way to finding the queen. Now try to apply Code Vein as a sequel to that game.
It works perfectly.
And this is genius in a way, as your character has lost all memories, so this is all old news to everyone else, but to you, both as a player and as your character, have no idea what it all is. And this comes to a head in the cathedral of blood, where you can play trough your part in Op: Queenslayer and then get an explanation of what happened after your "death" from Aurora. Suddenly you can piece all relevant story information together.

All this to say that the first quarter of the game, where you have no idea who you are or what is going on, makes you thirsty for information (pun intended). Then you get all the answers in your flashback, as well as getting introduced to important players in the lore, like Jack, Cruz, Gregorio and yourself as the Successor of the Blood. It's a buildup to a climax.

Plus, you get to meet Cruz in the new tutorial. She's nice, and it's the only moment when she's not frenzied or suffering under experiments.

TL:DWR Even if it had, at one point, been the trailer, it has become a big reveal that feels better to have at that point in the game rather than at the start.

[JefTheReaper]

Not sure why it was supposed to be such a big mystery though.
You start with no memories and they tell you some powerful being named "the Queen" was defeated.

I already assumed at that point that my character was the one that killed the queen.
The moment Louis tells you your blood has the properties of the Queen's blood I was pretty much 99% sure my char killed the queen.

[Lunar Shower]

Honestly, I can't say I really agree. Its a definite possibility that it may have been one of the first stages they designed, though we don't really have any evidence of that either, the best thing I could compare it to is the painted world in Dark Souls, as it just so happens that I believe it was the very first world/zone they built for Dark Souls, and was even the demo/beta they allowed people to play back in the day prior the games release, only for it to wind up a completely optional area upon the games eventual release. I think that probably played a role in why this stage also wound up being optional and off to the side, but most importantly it was definitely to help keep that level of mystery throughout the game and to fit the narrative themes overall with memory loss and such. Granted, I personally would have liked it to maybe have come even later into the game as a reveal, but it is the first chance we really get to see why the player character is unique/special, as they were technically the first ever successor, and it winds up fitting nicely with your upcoming talk with Jack only a little bit down the line.

All in all, as a way to introduce you to the world, I still think the underground serves as a perfect tutorial, and also really gives you a sense of just how bad things are for revenants under the levy system considering the player character basically gets thrust out into the world with little more than a pipe and some rubble to defend themselves against the lost, all in the hopes that you might bring back some blood beads for the rest to distribute how they see fit, something that might originally seem highly selfish but even itself eventually winds up being explained as to why this system is in place to begin with. All in all, it definitely helps to add layers to game overall, and its certainly something I enjoy personally, my only real question I suppose is just HOW does your vestige wind up in the sacred church to begin with, as I doubt its all too connected to the research facility/provisional government locations.

[JefTheReaper]

Originally posted by Lunar Shower:

Honestly, I can't say I really agree. Its a definite possibility that it may have been one of the first stages they designed, though we don't really have any evidence of that either, the best thing I could compare it to is the painted world in Dark Souls, as it just so happens that I believe it was the very first world/zone they built for Dark Souls, and was even the demo/beta they allowed people to play back in the day prior the games release, only for it to wind up a completely optional area upon the games eventual release. I think that probably played a role in why this stage also wound up being optional and off to the side, but most importantly it was definitely to help keep that level of mystery throughout the game and to fit the narrative themes overall with memory loss and such. Granted, I personally would have liked it to maybe have come even later into the game as a reveal, but it is the first chance we really get to see why the player character is unique/special, as they were technically the first ever successor, and it winds up fitting nicely with your upcoming talk with Jack only a little bit down the line.

All in all, as a way to introduce you to the world, I still think the underground serves as a perfect tutorial, and also really gives you a sense of just how bad things are for revenants under the levy system considering the player character basically gets thrust out into the world with little more than a pipe and some rubble to defend themselves against the lost, all in the hopes that you might bring back some blood beads for the rest to distribute how they see fit, something that might originally seem highly selfish but even itself eventually winds up being explained as to why this system is in place to begin with. All in all, it definitely helps to add layers to game overall, and its certainly something I enjoy personally, my only real question I suppose is just HOW does your vestige wind up in the sacred church to begin with, as I doubt its all too connected to the research facility/provisional government locations.

That's one of the reasons I feel like this was the tutorial level (aside from all the info and moments that really act like tutorials (like Jack telling you how to use mistles for example)
there is also the fact that they just placed your vestige in a random spot.

to me a clear sign this was the tutorial level, but was then move to later in the game.
The vestige was then just "dumped" halfway the game as they could not think of another proper way to implement it (after all, vestiges usually only show you everything with stone/ash statue versions of the past, yet this one somehow gives you a entire level to play of the past?)
Its no coincidense if you ask me.

[Mystokai]

''like Jack telling you how to use mistles''

Thats not at all what was happening tho,
What was demonstrated there was the fact that normally you would need Mistle Activator to activate them...
But after what happened you could do that on your own...

[JefTheReaper]

Originally posted by Mystokai:

''like Jack telling you how to use mistles''

Thats not at all what was happening tho,
What was demonstrated there was the fact that normally you would need Mistle Activator to activate them...
But after what happened you could do that on your own...

Yeah, Io then shows you later on you no longer need the medicen to do it, but your own blood works due to the Queen's blood in your veins.

[JefTheReaper]

Another one for example is how when the memory starts, you never get to see your character before Karen hands you the medical form and asks you wat you remember about yourself.
Only after that you get a clear close up look of your character.

The way this is set up is CLEARLY meant that when you are handed the datapad, you would have gone in the character creation and filled out your name.
After that getting a slow dramatic shot of your character for the first time.

[JefTheReaper]

Considering I'm a sore loser and love to rub this kind of stuff in.
Proof has been found that the memory level was indeed supposed to be the original tutorial level.
As a removed cutscene placed in the start of the game shows events before the player wakes up in the bed of the camp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FITGiPA7QI&t=8s

+1 for restoring this cutscene and the original opening.

[pythonfp]

You proved your point. It would have been better to introduce the queen that way.

[Mitsu/Inervo]

Originally posted by JefTheReaper:

Another one for example is how when the memory starts, you never get to see your character before Karen hands you the medical form and asks you wat you remember about yourself.
Only after that you get a clear close up look of your character.

The way this is set up is CLEARLY meant that when you are handed the datapad, you would have gone in the character creation and filled out your name.
After that getting a slow dramatic shot of your character for the first time.

dunno why you think it was CLEARLY meant to be that way but whatever
the question about what you remember is mostly about the memory loss part revenants keep having lol
and for me it fits perfectly where it is in the story atm there is no need for the devs to put in way more work then they already have with dlcs just to change that part to the beginning making all your memory loss till that part in the story(which is in cathedral) completly make no sense anymore

[Tregarde]

I think the sequence is placed just fine in the story. Up till then, they spent a good deal of time building up the mysteries. When you get to the flashback, you're finally given some answers. Having it all up front would undermines the whole memory loss aspect of the game, especially for your character.

I'll admit that cut scene was pretty cool, though it was clearly done early in the game's development (note the lack of details on the other soldiers compared to how they look in the final game). The devs obviously changed their minds, it happens. I think they made the right call.

[JefTheReaper]

Originally posted by Inervo:

Originally posted by JefTheReaper:

Another one for example is how when the memory starts, you never get to see your character before Karen hands you the medical form and asks you wat you remember about yourself.
Only after that you get a clear close up look of your character.

The way this is set up is CLEARLY meant that when you are handed the datapad, you would have gone in the character creation and filled out your name.
After that getting a slow dramatic shot of your character for the first time.

dunno why you think it was CLEARLY meant to be that way but whatever
the question about what you remember is mostly about the memory loss part revenants keep having lol
and for me it fits perfectly where it is in the story atm there is no need for the devs to put in way more work then they already have with dlcs just to change that part to the beginning making all your memory loss till that part in the story(which is in cathedral) completly make no sense anymore

Always people who still want to deny or doupt everything even when solid proof is presented.
You also delude yourself when you think this would take extra work.
Give me the tools and I will do this on a afternoon.

creating whole new content like those DLC's, THAT's complex.
This? its just assets they already have, moving them around from one place to another.
and if it would only take me little effort, then consider how much of a breeze this would be for the developers who have the correct tools and know the game inside and out.
It would take about 10 minutes.
Move the quest to the front of the line, alter some spawn points and script links, remove the vestige from Anor Londo and boom, finished.

I won't say that making games is easy, but I know enough about games to say this spesifficaly would be very easy.

The whole memory loss would also not be a problem.
Unless you are going to tell me that you remembering you beat the queen is somehow going to give your player character his memories back too?
and any of the other information is still something you don't know at that point in the game yet anyways.
You don't know silva is creating the mist, you don't know about the horrors beyond the mist, you don't know about the relics, or the sucsessors, or the attendants, or Mido, or any of the pasts of all the other revenants.
So in what way will you somehow trancend your characters amnesia with JUST that little information on the Queen?

The game will start, you will know about a war that has ended, you know you should have died permanently but did not, and you think Jack stabbed you in the back.
Anything else would have still been a mystery.

Heck you were not even aware of who or what the Queen was, you just know it was a danger and you have beaten it.

Then (if this was the start of the game) you slowly get to see these memories of Cruz, and how she was not the monster you believed she was.
That would have left way more of a mental impact too, considering you would first just brand her as a enemy witouth motivation and clearly "evil" only to find out she was a victim.

[Mitsu/Inervo]

Originally posted by JefTheReaper:

Originally posted by Inervo:

dunno why you think it was CLEARLY meant to be that way but whatever
the question about what you remember is mostly about the memory loss part revenants keep having lol
and for me it fits perfectly where it is in the story atm there is no need for the devs to put in way more work then they already have with dlcs just to change that part to the beginning making all your memory loss till that part in the story(which is in cathedral) completly make no sense anymore

Always people who still want to deny or doupt everything even when solid proof is presented.
You also delude yourself when you think this would take extra work.
Give me the tools and I will do this on a afternoon.

creating whole new content like those DLC's, THAT's complex.
This? its just assets they already have, moving them around from one place to another.
and if it would only take me little effort, then consider how much of a breeze this would be for the developers who have the correct tools and know the game inside and out.
It would take about 10 minutes.
Move the quest to the front of the line, alter some spawn points and script links, remove the vestige from Anor Londo and boom, finished.

I won't say that making games is easy, but I know enough about games to say this spesifficaly would be very easy.

The whole memory loss would also not be a problem.
Unless you are going to tell me that you remembering you beat the queen is somehow going to give your player character his memories back too?
and any of the other information is still something you don't know at that point in the game yet anyways.
You don't know silva is creating the mist, you don't know about the horrors beyond the mist, you don't know about the relics, or the sucsessors, or the attendants, or Mido, or any of the pasts of all the other revenants.
So in what way will you somehow trancend your characters amnesia with JUST that little information on the Queen?

The game will start, you will know about a war that has ended, you know you should have died permanently but did not, and you think Jack stabbed you in the back.
Anything else would have still been a mystery.

Heck you were not even aware of who or what the Queen was, you just know it was a danger and you have beaten it.

Then (if this was the start of the game) you slowly get to see these memories of Cruz, and how she was not the monster you believed she was.
That would have left way more of a mental impact too, considering you would first just brand her as a enemy witouth motivation and clearly "evil" only to find out she was a victim.

solid proof? there was not a single real proof given that actually states where exactly that cutscene that was used as the sole proof was from exactly but sure call me a denier ^^
additionally to the last part of that exact cutscene actually being used at the start of your memory but whatever

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

The cutscene is actually from the PS4 Trailer in 2017, seems to me its a WIP at the time.

Though I do agree with Jeff, Memories of a Player would be better as a first tutorial level. I also do disagree because the content doesn't work as a beginner's content especially given how are we to acquire the Queenslayer's Blood Code. The introduction to the base game is good enough due to the circumstances they are given.

I do believe Bandai did think about this and one point, though just made it a complete optional side mission because they don't know how else to do it. So them remaking this as a tutorial will most likely be never.