Moon Temple mixed reviews, why?

[Neocronic]

I just came home from work, not bought this DLC yet, this surprise for me they release moon temple today. Open store page and see mixed reviews already, most of that reviews on Chinese. What's wrong with DLC right now? Maybe bugs? I can wait before they fix all bugs, but still this worth buying dlc right now or this content bad and not worth that money?

[Milk]

Abridged version: merc mode is badly balanced.
Personally I'd wait a bit.

[I>U]

Because it's Steam reviews, mate.

In short:

1) Nothing is wrong with merc mode. It's actually balanced, because they have all the skills rewinded (Sould Cleaver isn't tied to Soul Consumption for Merc, Flurry of Arrows isn't tied to PA, number of Gladiuses and Pit Fighters isn't determined by the passive skill, etc)
The person above is probably reffering to the fact that you can't beat MoonTemple headstaright as merc. That's not an issue of merc mode: Moon Temple just has diferent pacing. Like, you know, PoP campaign don't progress linearly: Crustworm is a loser you can beat with lvl 1 hero, but desert has no place to stock your ore; Lower Pyramid is somewhere around Armoury, while Upper Pyramid is way ahead of Battlements. Moon Temple has another gimmick - you don't pick as many items as in other campaings here, so all 3 bosses and level mobs are close in power to each other (relatively close - of course the last boss is visibly stronger than the first).

2) There are indestructable turrets in this DLC, and kids don't like them.

3) Some also don't like new map layout, because you need to have all 4 party members in one place in order to proceed. I don't see too much of an issue in this, but, at least, that is a fair point.

Personally, I find this DLC better than PoP on launch - it clearly has more refinement. They added new town area, and a mean to fastravell, new mobs in Act 1 can actually flank Palladin (shot him in the back\side), and Act 2 boss is just stellar (you fight him on a slippery surface and his acceleration on impact affects both damage and knockback), new puzzles add MORE MATH. Also new items, debuffs and great threats, but that is in order, right?

That's really disapponiting to see it mixed, but it is Steam - I've already got used to this.

[GodMan]

Lackluster level design. You just go from one icy room to another, sometimes with only changed lights. And last level is just a slap in the face. Biggest map yet, but mostly its just empty. Oh yeah, and you can't progress to other rooms without the whole party, which kills mods that let 10 people play at once. I dont use it, but it should be patched either way.

[lpnlizard27]

The actual DLC area is fine, i enjoyed it.

There are however some baffling design choices regarding the mercenary mode and its progression... or lack there of.

[SmashMalla]

I don't know. I've not run into any bugs. I assume that maybe people don't like the mercenary characters, which is probably the "highlight" of the DLC.

I'm enjoying it though. Also, it's like £4 so even without mercs the moon temple and it's rewards I'd say are worth it.

[Voidflakes]

Gotta be honest, the level designs on Moon Temple are pretty awful. And I haven't played it on multiplayer yet, but I can already tell it's gonna be REALLY annoying being forced to group up just to enter the next room. Half the fun of multiplayer for me and my mates is splitting up and exploring everything - more chance of finding loot, puzzles, imps, etc. that way.

Everything else is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ amazing though, and the addition of customisable perma-death characters is awesome and challenging! :)

[Milk]

I've actually not gotten past the 1st floor of the moon temple, but that's not why I put down a negative review. The Mercs are just not fun to play, and to get any rewards your Merc must die. Which seems counter-intuitive but what do I know, I'm not a game designer

I only really cared about the merc mode. And they killed my enthusiasm for it.

The only thing I like is the new ice wyrm companion and the blood rites, those are cool. Other than that, yeah this DLC doesn't do much for me.

[Bregan]

because the moon temple is a boring slog of repetitiveness. and because merc mode not only extremely restrictive, but unrewarding. its fine that its permadeath, its fine that the skills are slightly weaker, its fine that you start off weak, its fine that its separate and does not affect the regular mode or characters. its NOT fine that you cant put money into the fountain. its NOT fine that you cant redo a run for more resources. its incredibly NOT fine that EVERYTHING goes up a ng level, even if you havent done that map. its NOT fine that you have no way to use the statues from the pyramid dlc for your merc. its NOT fine that you cant use the points you earn until you DIE.

its one thing to be challenging, its another to just be unfun. especially when it COULD be fun and still kept separate.

[Voidflakes]

Originally posted by Bregan:

its NOT fine that you cant put money into the fountain.

Having played a little more of this DLC I fully and wholeheartedly agree with all of the points you've raised. HOWEVER, I have found that you can activate the fountain with a regular character then switch over to your merc. It's still stupid that you have to go through all the extra steps just to do that, though. I don't understand why you can't just save yourself the hassle and do it directly with your merc.

[Neocronic]

Originally posted by Bregan:

because the moon temple is a boring slog of repetitiveness. and because merc mode not only extremely restrictive, but unrewarding. its fine that its permadeath, its fine that the skills are slightly weaker, its fine that you start off weak, its fine that its separate and does not affect the regular mode or characters. its NOT fine that you cant put money into the fountain. its NOT fine that you cant redo a run for more resources. its incredibly NOT fine that EVERYTHING goes up a ng level, even if you havent done that map. its NOT fine that you have no way to use the statues from the pyramid dlc for your merc. its NOT fine that you cant use the points you earn until you DIE.

its one thing to be challenging, its another to just be unfun. especially when it COULD be fun and still kept separate.

Also what rank system means, this recruit to general. Give perma bonuses for all chars or what? I see achievements for that, but i still not bought this dlc, i don't know details.

[Eguzky]

Honestly, I still think that, as you unlock new Merc Ranks, you should be able to START at those ranks or lower with your next Merc.

The problem is that Merc Mode restricts too much and has 0 real progression outside of 'Don't die'. I don't mind losing the Merc, but it'd be nice if I could make my next Merc at the next rank, since I hit it, with some more starting gold to make him more powerful.

[I>U]

Originally posted by Eguzky:

Honestly, I still think that, as you unlock new Merc Ranks, you should be able to START at those ranks or lower with your next Merc.

And that will kill the very sense of it. You can have all the progression and even more in normal mode.

Originally posted by Neocronic:

Also what rank system means, this recruit to general. Give perma bonuses for all chars or what? I see achievements for that, but i still not bought this dlc, i don't know details.

It unlocks more upgrades to you (you have no access to blessings or Magic Shop as a private at all) and awarded for completeing floors and bosses (so Tower campaign get you the most).

Combined with constantly progressing NG+ (you can't revert it, can't grind, can only move forward), it's your typical "threat level" as games like Crimson Lands and other score-attack games describe it.

[I>U]

And, indeed, you can't use fountain or statues in merc mode. Since a bit overlooked, right.

[Neocronic]

Originally posted by I>U:

Originally posted by Eguzky:

Honestly, I still think that, as you unlock new Merc Ranks, you should be able to START at those ranks or lower with your next Merc.

And that will kill the very sense of it. You can have all the progression and even more in normal mode.

Originally posted by Neocronic:

Also what rank system means, this recruit to general. Give perma bonuses for all chars or what? I see achievements for that, but i still not bought this dlc, i don't know details.

It unlocks more upgrades to you (you have no access to blessings or Magic Shop as a private at all) and awarded for completeing floors and bosses (so Tower campaign get you the most).

Combined with constantly progressing NG+ (you can't revert it, can't grind, can only move forward), it's your typical "threat level" as games like Crimson Lands and other score-attack games describe it.

This looks like original hammerwatch game. In original you almost not have any upgrades, town, perma bonuses at all. You just have one big dungeon and one try to complete whole run, when you kill dragon on last floor game just ends.

[Snebbers]

Originally posted by Neocronic:

This looks like original hammerwatch game. In original you almost not have any upgrades, town, perma bonuses at all. You just have one big dungeon and one try to complete whole run, when you kill dragon on last floor game just ends.

I get what you're saying and you're pretty much right. But if I want to play Hammerwatch. I'd go play Hammerwatch because I own that too. But I don't want to play Hammerwatch. I want to play Heroes of Hammerwatch.