If you think Melting Points are OP...

[shoottokill]

You're right.

Discuss.

[Ralathar44]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

There seems to be a big missunderstanding about how mmr is used to validate or dissaprove
opinions.

the basic concept is that this game is based on knowledge.
whoever has more knowledge in this game will win more in the long run and therfore be higher mmr in the long run.

you may like it or you may hate it but thats just simply how it is.
denying this would be like denying that a person who consistently runs faster 100m sprint
is a faster sprinter/runner than someone who consistently runs slower.
that would be crazy.

now if some 500mr player has an opinion i do read his opinion and give my honest take about his point.
Its not that i automatically dissaprove of any opinion that a low mmr player has.
not at all.

The thing is that when i read some complete garbage opinion on something.
And then after that i look at his mmr ----- i have allready decided that the take is complete garbage. ------
But now when i see his mmr suddenly all makes sense.
its simply lack of knowledge paired with overconfidence that its never your own fault


Now if i have an opinion being ~ 1600mmr and Arti being ~ 2000mmr says i am wrong my first thought is that i should probably reconsider my opinion and check if maybe i am indeed wrong.
But for some reason i dont understand a 700mmr player when told by a 1600mmr player that he is wrong ... starts to berate the 1600mmr player

Anyone who's followed any real esports knows this is not the case. Pro players constantly have off the rails takes. Heck entire REGIONS end up having off the rails takes as the US thinks it knows what is what and then gets BODIED by eastern teams lol.

Unfortunately the cold hard truth is that the only real predictor is cold hard data. Everything else is just Egos. Especially since you can get to the equivalent of Diamond tier. (top 10% usually) of basically all Esports by just being DECENT mechanically and then not being stupid in terms of tactics and comps and stuff.

And then grandmasters will make Diamond players look like noobs (top 1% usually) and then pros will make grandmasters look like noobs and then the actual top players will make the average pro look like a noob. And to get the actual top level strats a game needs a big enough playerbase. You need to be at least Heroes of the Storm sized at its peak. Anything below that and your pool of actual good players just isn't deep enough to get proper competition and experimentation in the meta.

So someone with "high MMR" is basically just the equivalent of your neighborhood guy who's pretty good at smash brothers but would get absolutely curb stomped at a serious tournament.

Don't have to believe me, we have 10+ years of esports history showing this quite clearly. The data is there. People crowing about their MMR or league are useless. And this is also why I'm not complaining about winning/losing or the metas themselves but instead the effect other people playing the meta has on my enjoyment.

Literal hard data history. And with that im out. If you wanna argue proven easily referenced/researched e-sports history, go argue someone else. Unfollowing. You can continue telling yourself how great you are and how everyone else sucks without me. (you'd argue someone your own MMR or higher too lol)

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Ralathar44:

...And to get the actual top level strats a game needs a big enough playerbase. You need to be at least Heroes of the Storm sized at its peak. Anything below that and your pool of actual good players just isn't deep enough to get proper competition and experimentation in the meta.

I doubt you have any data to back this up. I remember when people migrated from all across the rts world to SC2 and I don't think the size of the rts had much impact on their individual success. It's just unverified cope.

Originally posted by Ralathar44:

So someone with "high MMR" is basically just the equivalent of your neighborhood guy who's pretty good at smash brothers but would get absolutely curb stomped at a serious tournament.

Whatever scale you want to use, you are closer to the bottom of it and I'm closer to the top. Even if the skill difference would be how to throw a Shoryuken at the arcade it's incredibly stupid to put that down as nothing. You can only do that because you have no faith and no pride in your skills as a gamer. It's crab-in-the-bucket-mental, you are putting yourself down and everyone around you as well.

The correct attitude would be to ask the neighborhood guy how he did it and then give him a proper challenge, improve alongside him, then challenge the world instead of just giving up and calling him trash even though he beats you 9/10.

[Sonnenbank]

@Ralathar44
its funny how you always come up with other e-sports

Starcraft and CS and other e-sports etc have a high level of mechanical skill involved and therefore cant be compared to mechabellum at all that has 0 mechanical skill involved and is all knowledge based.

And i am aware of my situation.
1600mmr is nothing too special or extreme.
It just means i have better knowledge in this game than the average player who is 800-1200. Winrate vs these players being above 80% also clearly shows it.

its also clear someone like Arti has better knowledge in tis game than i do.
I did never claim to know everything about that game.
Its also clear someone like sacco has better understanding of the game than Arti

the ridiculous part is that your claim for credibility in mechabellum - a purly knowledge based game - is that you claim to have experience in other mechanical demanding e-sports titles and that this fact is worth more than having higher mmr or better winrate in the very game we talking about.

Let me draw a picture to show how ridiculous that is.

New snowboarder with not too much experience who fails at his first carving attempts.
Snowboard is a dumb sport you cant even carve on this things.

more experienced snowboarder who can carve.
Dude you are wrong about this . I am in fact carving on a snowboard and the reason you fail is wrong body position

new snowboarder again: Dude i have a pretty big history in table tennis ! my opinion is worth the same as yours in regards to snowboarding ....


being good at LOL,DOTA,CS or Starcraft has 0 relevance for mechabellum.


over and out

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by Nero:

I'll gladly fight them. But they must use MP with disfraction tech and no self heal. Since that is their choice of "argument".

Originally posted by Nero:

Silence, disfraction tech users have no right to speak.

just because this shows what the problem is
https://i.postimg.cc/6QvVJqmf/Melting-Points-Energy-Diffraction.jpg

At the time of the quote Nero was ~ 700/800mmr player and says anyone who uses Energy-Diffraction on melters as defence ( like i did) is a giant noob.
and should not even talk about anything regarding balance in mechabellum

Now the screenshot is the current #1 player in the world using Energy-Diffraction + range and no self-heal on Melters as defence.

I guess the current #1 player in the world who is ~ 2500mmr is a noob.

[BibleThump]

Jesus christ can we let this thread die. Not even I am this delusional in my worst fits of rage and denial. Melting points are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Even though arti_sel is a completely arrogant brat that I can't stand (hope to farm his rating these days) and his lap dog sonnebank is like a mini me version of him they are in fact right here and arti is actually (sadly) good at the game (unlike sonne, he's bad).

The way they communicate makes it impossible for anyone who isn't a budhist monk to actually have a discussion with them since they tak down to you and are both in general obnoxious. Now to the actual topic: no, mps arent op, theyre incredibly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the current meta and i honestly cant't remember when I last used them and I'm on the cusp of 1900.

They get absolutely ♥♥♥♥ on by any meta comp at the moment, they are slow, they are extremely expensive, they have low versatility and get flattened by anything that has range and some damage. Can we please let this forsaken thread die out now please.

[Nero]

Originally posted by BibleThump:

Jesus christ can we let this thread die. Not even I am this delusional in my worst fits of rage and denial. Melting points are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Even though arti_sel is a completely arrogant brat that I can't stand (hope to farm his rating these days) and his lap dog sonnebank is like a mini me version of him they are in fact right here and arti is actually (sadly) good at the game (unlike sonne, he's bad).

The way they communicate makes it impossible for anyone who isn't a budhist monk to actually have a discussion with them since they tak down to you and are both in general obnoxious. Now to the actual topic: no, mps arent op, theyre incredibly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the current meta and i honestly cant't remember when I last used them and I'm on the cusp of 1900.

They get absolutely ♥♥♥♥ on by any meta comp at the moment, they are slow, they are extremely expensive, they have low versatility and get flattened by anything that has range and some damage. Can we please let this forsaken thread die out now please.

Relax its just a thread on the internet.

"I guess the current #1 player in the world who is ~ 2500mmr is a noob."

He must be. I stand by my word and double down on it. Melters are only to be used with range and that life leeching and perhaps the EMP missiles. Equip them with nano heal or heavy armor and see how they decimate half the enemy.

In the screenshot you posted we see a noob. I don't care about his leaderboard position. There are way too many melters with the wrong tech present. The enemy has apart from a vulcan no giants. So the melters are a bit unnecessary. Especially given how the enemy is mostly squishy units.

It also seems to me that this game is a bit like WARGAME / WARNO in that sense that pros play a different game than 90% of the playerbase. The screenshot shows 2 rather bad armies to me. I qualify them as bad because one is using too many melters and wrongly. The other is mostly air units.

They don't play like what you would face in the 600 - 1200mmr range.

Finally if the world #1 player is using 5 melters then that rather supports my argument ;-) even if he uses them wrong.

[BibleThump]

Top players rarely use melters. You quoted one example. Delusional community on both ends. This game can't die soon enough.

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by BibleThump:

Even though arti_sel is a completely arrogant brat that I can't stand (hope to farm his rating these days) and his lap dog sonnebank is like a mini me version of him they are in fact right here and arti is actually (sadly) good at the game (unlike sonne, he's bad).
.

Lol
I am not Arti s whatever....
I dont know too much about him and i have never spoken a word with him outside of these mechabellum threads...
its just happens that most of the time his arguments make a lot fo sense
thats all.

good and bad in terms of mechabellum is relative..... you are close to 1900
which is 300 more than me.... not that gigantic big of a difference...

Originally posted by BibleThump:

.... Delusional community on both ends. This game can't die soon enough.

but i can see from your posts you are a little insecure flower in rl......

hoping a whole game with its community will die because you feel sad
lol

[BibleThump]

Woof woof woof

[boon2537]

Diffraction on melters is ultra good on defend against stuff like overlord, ray, rhino, steelball? How is that a hot take lol

[Nero]

Originally posted by boon2537:

Diffraction on melters is ultra good on defend against stuff like overlord, ray, rhino, steelball? How is that a hot take lol

Orly? Cutting down your range and attack against single units helps in your opinion against single units???

[boon2537]

Originally posted by Nero:

Originally posted by boon2537:

Diffraction on melters is ultra good on defend against stuff like overlord, ray, rhino, steelball? How is that a hot take lol

Orly? Cutting down your range and attack against single units helps in your opinion against single units???

Range doesn't matter as much if your opponent deployed on the line with low range units (unless you are deploying behind the tower and using level 5 tower to tank). And Diffraction tech allows melters to not get stuck on chaff as much. Ray and steelball are not single unit. Diffraction tech let you flip that matchup on its head. Overlord is usually spammed on offense and are close to each other since they want to be beacon around. Diffraction tech will lock on to them faster and sometimes hit multiple at once. Of course you can still get range + life leech upgrade in addition to diffraction tech. With level/item and decent support, those melters will be a raid boss (well, until they are hit with emp lol).

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by BibleThump:

Jesus christ can we let this thread die. Not even I am this delusional in my worst fits of rage and denial. Melting points are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Even though arti_sel is a completely arrogant brat that I can't stand (hope to farm his rating these days) and his lap dog sonnebank is like a mini me version of him they are in fact right here and arti is actually (sadly) good at the game (unlike sonne, he's bad).

You call me arrogant, meanwhile there is a complete nobody who claims that the best player in the game is a noob. It's clearly not my arrogance that annoys you. Maybe you feel threatened that I'm actually good and the nobody is just a nobody. Maybe it's got to do with the fact that you want the game to die and I want it to do good.

But I am right. Undeniably so.

Originally posted by BibleThump:

The way they communicate makes it impossible for anyone who isn't a budhist monk to actually have a discussion with them since they tak down to you and are both in general obnoxious.

Hierarchy in gaming is dependent on skill. I only ask that skill is respected. Prove me wrong by increasing your mmr, and when your mmr increase you will increasingly realize that I was always right.

Originally posted by BibleThump:

Now to the actual topic: no, mps arent op, theyre incredibly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the current meta and i honestly cant't remember when I last used them and I'm on the cusp of 1900.

They get absolutely ♥♥♥♥ on by any meta comp at the moment, they are slow, they are extremely expensive, they have low versatility and get flattened by anything that has range and some damage. Can we please let this forsaken thread die out now please.

I wouldn't go that far, but the prospect of them being OP is incredibly stupid.

Originally posted by boon2537:

Originally posted by Nero:

Orly? Cutting down your range and attack against single units helps in your opinion against single units???

Range doesn't matter as much if your opponent deployed on the line with low range units (unless you are deploying behind the tower and using level 5 tower to tank). And Diffraction tech allows melters to not get stuck on chaff as much. Ray and steelball are not single unit. Diffraction tech let you flip that matchup on its head. Overlord is usually spammed on offense and are close to each other since they want to be beacon around. Diffraction tech will lock on to them faster and sometimes hit multiple at once. Of course you can still get range + life leech upgrade in addition to diffraction tech. With level/item and decent support, those melters will be a raid boss (well, unless they are hit with emp lol).

Making it semi aoe is clearly the best thing about the upgrade but it's also a damage increase of 315%. You don't have to be the best player in the world to figure out that this might be good in some situations.

[Blizz]

you guys can argue about the skill for melting pots all you want but it doesnt change the fact that theyre a boring unit that make for boring games. the game would be far more fun without it or a replacement that's not as unfun