Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question.
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
If you can persuade everyone that A-10 style sub sonic attack plane can have its own unique role in this game, the developer might change his mind.
*****
Here we go right out of the gate even though I already said so very much about all of that initially. >SIGH< Regardless, it is not my job to persuade the world. How about you do that for us instead.
And even though I do not know you at all and you have a funny way of trying to impress me by your assigning me homework, I will give you one, and only one answer.
An A-10 in the sim would stand or fall just like it does in the real world.
Just like the dropship vtol variant does.
So the argument you made, just to be disagreeable, is null.
Bored now.
But it sure would be NICE to fly a VTOL A-10 aircraft.
Man, I would pay $20 for one!
Yup. I bet a lot of folks would too.
"Ye have not, because ye ask not."
☺
But it's the developer's own project, so whatever he will add a-10 or not is purely his decision. No matter how many demands of a-10 increases.
I personally want AH-94 turret nerf so badly so I would have a reason to use AGM-114 missiles. but just like HOTAS(that people have requested about as much as A-10 and F-14), A-10 or whatever any other planes, I felt that the developer is never going to read my requests so I decided to stick with vtol vr mod loader forever.
And I want to love the chopper, but it tends to go crazy here and there making it not fun to invest time in for me. Rock steady for most of a mission and then the physics glitch or something.
Just not reliable, But then again, being FORCED to use VR controllers ONLY instead of any form of hotas or joystick will get you that. Glitchy-twitchy. Too many times a glitch costs a mission with 20 minutes invested already....
Which is another illustration of what you are saying that I agree with.
The devs will do ONLY what they want to do regardless of what all the investors continue to ask for over and over and over and over.
I get that too, I can respect that view.
Because we would not have ALL that we have now had the devs not loved what they already provided us.
But, the other side of that coin of turning away from what everyone requests to do what you want solely just will not profit as much as pleasing investors. You can't please EVERYONE, that is a constant. But pleasing self only is not very profitable either.
Having zero interest in any Wild Weasle Electronic Warfare aircraft I can only hope that the devs release some form of more desirable aircraft afterwards that I can get into. The latest trainer is -OK-. But not going to keep me coming back sad to say.
by the way I am a strange masochist who loves the unstable nature of helicopters over way too stable fixed wings. it always feel awesome when I managed to handle this beast. I also like the aspect of needing to flee away from other fixed wing aircrafts than fighting 1:1 because realistically helicopters are simply no match against fighter jets. basically a flying survival horror game !
But I have so little free time that as much as I want to fly a chopper mission and as much as I do love the aircraft, it just is not worth the high probability that its physics or the idiotic vr hand controllers will glitch just that half second too long and ruin an otherwise perfect mission. Way too many end this way. I wish I could refund that one.
It is clear that this dev, as BRILLIANT as he has been, and I am grateful to him/them;
is unfortunately going to continue to severely limit his audience by not permitting dev-side physical joysticks/hotas.
Not to mention the most often requested airframes, while effectively crippling real modding ability wherein others could do all this work for him. Growing the sim for him a thousandfold while increasing it's life a decade. All while he continues to do what he wants as he already is. >SIGH<
As it is, with barely Lego-graphics, an almost no real modability level, and being stuck with glitchy vr controls; and especially ONLY the aircraft the dev wants to add; these have pretty much played this title out for most of this not really huge audience.
Literally, how could this sim's investor-pool be shrunk even more than it has?
VTOL is being passed by and not left installed by the majority with so many other titles filling its role and itch with better everything all around. I hate to post that, but it is so, just look at the dwindling interest and slow sales. NOT thriving at all.
A real shame.
Well, you see it happen a lot on Steam, and you say something but it just isn't heard or taken to heart most times.
Off the harddrive it goes like Pacman or FS9 into nostalgia. And the next one fills the void better because they want the sales and the longevity, so they listen and they make it happen.
Maybe that's best?
Maybe that is the way it should be?
There is no shortage of these, and the 'Coming Soon' flight section is pretty hefty.
Still, what a shame. So very much lost potential.
Mainly because:
Afterburners are fun! No need to spend a long time climbing and flying to/from the combat area.
Air to air capabilities. You can fight back with a multirole loadout while keeping up with both fighters and strikers. while the A-10 will spend most of it's time loitering, especially in multiplayer missions like Dynamic liberation, waiting for your fighters take out the enemy fighters and possibly fail in doing so.
Low level hit and run attacks. Flying really fast and really low before pulling up hard and toss-bombing a load of GBU-39's onto the enemy base is great fun when you pull it off.
Been playing DCS since it was Flanker and prior, literally the same single core garbage engine. Been flying the A-10 since they released it.
And still flying that A-10. And the Updated one for FS2020.
Of course dogfighting is FUN. I also agree with you there.
But the A-10 is a ground pounder close-support monster. And that is what I MUCH PREFER doing. Pounding the crap out of ground targets. That's my thing.
I R A R E L Y dogfight in fighters outside WW2.
So, I respect your angle, but no, I still want the A-10 and YES, it would keep this title installed on my harddrive all decade to have it in there.
As it is, VTOL has already been uninstalled and reinstalled to my SSD as often as new airframes are added. So that's 3 times so far. It gets old pretty quick with these graphics and the VR controller limitations. I wish it were not so. But that's an expressed reality by a great many people here, on discord, ytube, and other forums etc...
And I can guarantee I won't be reinstalling or hanging around waiting on some wild weasel aircraft. BORING! Because NOBODY is sticking around for the Lego graphics. That's the honest truth. So it is about the aircraft and the VR.
If ONLY mod aircraft would be supported again, it could re-ADD such variety and NEW LIFE, new depth for everyone. Then physical controller support. But that's the 3 year kryptonite request ain't it? Our way or no play has been the answer to date on these requests.
I do like this title, but the restrictions and limitations are not shrinking on any front, they are rapidly increasing. Like all of us I want this baby to soar, but it seems allergic to succeeding and growing like so very many owners have requested it to grow.
Logic is pretty clear that the fanbase for VTOL has pretty much peaked. There is no evidence that it is growing faster than people are just getting bored with it and uninstalling, and migrating to other flight titles that do include the basics of controllers, modability etc...
Well, it has all been said to death over the last 3 years. One thing is for certain, it won't be said much longer with so many throwing up there hands and going elsewhere for their flight fixes.
Not everyone only love the newest advanced weapons.
I like revolvers over modern guns because they look cooler and more fun to use.
My favorite helicopter is OH-6 / AH-6 family even through they are objectively inferior to other attack helicopters.
I want that AH-94 turrets to be nerfed because super advanced anti-tank turrets make attack helicopting less fun.
VTOL VR received Platinum for Best-Selling VR Games of 2022 (measured by Gross Revenue)
- 2017 - released - BRONZE 🥉 (51st – 100th bestsellers)
- 2018 & 2019 - SILVER 🥈 (25th – 50th bestsellers)
- 2020 & 2021 - GOLD 🥇 (13th – 24th bestsellers)
- 2022 - PLATINUM 🏆 (1st – 12th bestsellers)
It has even surpassed IL-2 in the number of online players in recent years https://steamdb.info/charts/?compare=307960,6679702022 is not today or tomorrow. Comparing to one title, one class is not the whole picture. This sim and its base are in decline and not climbing to the top outperforming all others as you post. That is one side barely examined at best. Not long term or whole picture.
In such a market if you are not growing then you are at best stagnated or in decline.
Flight is not a HUGE market towering over all others. It is not too far from the other FPS and action markets, but profit-wise barely on the same page.
This is already a much smaller base. VR is an even smaller slice of that small market. Within that shallow pool is where VTOL swims trying to thrive against the rest in that flight+VR market pool.
And there are MANY similar titles out and incoming to compete with. They are bragging controller support, modability and many other things most often requested but denied here in VTOL. This not only severely limits VTOL's future, it cripples it.
These other sims listen to this communities' investor base, they are hungry for what VTOL had and has. Right out of the gate they are and will be getting us. Just being NEW is over half the battle.
But advertising already included what VTOL has refused for years is more than enough to force VTOL into oblivion and off a harddrive.
Growth is sustained increasing. Actual real increase that outperforms over loss of players and income.
Not just some measured peak at dlc release time. That is a band-aid over a crack in the dam.
In all honesty VTOL has very little content and extremely poor graphics and FX.
And not much positive history of providing what their investors request. Period.
That is very damaging in this market.
*How many will play FS-8 when FS2020 is LIGHTYEARS improved?
*How many will play Amiga Red Baron when the Updated re-re-re-re-RELEASE of iL2 VR is so much better?
* How many still play Flanker instead of DCS?
Releasing a dlc is maintaining at best.
Zero thought for survival.
It raises some lost interest and brings those that left back for a little longer. The increase such a small DLC brings is nothing against the base losing interest over years of stagnation. Again, NONE of us are sticking around for the Lego-graphics, now are we?
Such a small dlc buys maybe a few months at best before interest is lost once again. And DLC for VTOL is yearly at best...
Opening up actual modability is growth and expansion.
Actually 'Working for' the investor base and releasing upgrades & content that they request is time-tested growth and expansion.Plus, the community does the work for you, the player base grows as content skyrockets.
That is growth.
That is how those like iL2 have lasted DECADES not just from one yearly dlc release sputtering to the next.
VTOL is barely surviving 2023 into 2024. That is not THRIVING GROWTH and Expansion.
If they don't update it, add what people want [what others already offer] then they are on the downside of uninstalling and bargain-bin sales pricing.
The only step after that is abandonware.
And I for one do NOT want to see that day for VTOL!
Not in 2023, 24, 25 or beyond.
I want to see VTOL around for a decade, 1000 times bigger than it is today. A handful of devs cannot do that alone. But a community full of players adding REAL content to the Workshop sure can.
It is how the big names thrive. Some for multiple DECADES already.
But ignoring all this is how the 100 other titles got UNINSTALLED & forgotten long ago.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” – Henry Ford.
Developers make their own decisions. In the world of marketing this may be a tad controversial, but developers don’t rely on market research, focus groups or personas to create their products. They work on the notion that they need to create a product that they would want themselves. This is a mantra that Steve Jobs instilled within Apple Inc. It’s hard to explain it any better - sometimes the game we dream making has certain characteristics and that’s how we envisioned it, and how we want it to be. It’s not to say you should completely ignore your audience, that would be foolish. But developers are the experts in their field, so use that expertise to create something new that the audience will love.
Then let's take SimplePlanes for comparison https://steamdb.info/charts/?compare=397340,667970
It's playable on desktop and in VR, supports community-made custom vehicles, HOTAS, and even adds motion controller support to interact with the cockpit like VTOL VR.
You can see that its player count is gradually decreasing. The mod ability and HOTAS support don't help.
the other side of the account totals a different understanding:
Simple Planes is STILL AROUND BECAUSE of INCLUDING all those STANDARD features [and MUCH MORE], that VTOL cannot be bothered to add after all these years.
Had Simple Planes been as stubborn and anti-growth as this title then they would not have made it this far. Why would they, what had they to offer PRIOR to a few years back?
And how MUCH MORE do they have to offer today?
TONS!
And this keeps them around.
Repeated differently;
Simple Planes' staying power, just like VTOL, CERTAINLY is NOT due to its Lego graphics lack of quality. Graphics from 10-15 years ago are far superior to both titles.
No, Simple Planes is still around because they LISTENED to their community and WANTED continued $uccess.
They added and updated and included and are still alive and ACTIVELY reaping their $hare of the market. And RIGHTFULLY so.☺ And more than one DLC every 10 to 12 months, but opening the FLOODGATES to REAL Steam Workshop support & creativity.
What they offer FAR EXCEEDED the stunted graphics. They offer MORE.
Also, flight Sims have very poor shelf-lives historically.
That is, unless they listen to their investors and supply their base demands.
Those that do not are gone like last weeks leftovers.
As better looking titles come out that include the features known to be desirable to their market, they replace those that could not, or simply refused to adapt. This is 100% the case here.
MANY titles are incoming that already do all this and much more, and look way better doing it.
VTOL was great but others are doing it and offering more already, again, with MANY more incoming that advertise all this simply as barebones basics.
If VTOL wants to remain on harddrives and relevant then they will have to adapt to what their investors want, or all that $$$ is going elsewhere.
And releasing stuff almost nobody is requesting is NOT going to keep VTOL on hardrives for long. Especially at 1 DLC per year-ish.
And a Wild Weasel ain't going to cut it either. VTOL will either open up or be trampled as others that do want the $uccess will fill that void.
You made my point for me while hopscotching all around the facts that did not support your narrative.
You can pretend AV-42C as a futuristic new generation A-10 with VTOL capability, like I can remove turret in AH-94 and pretend I'm flying OH-1 ninja or UHT tiger.
You don't know how your aircraft looks like in the cockpit anyway, unless you turn on the cam just to take a look at the ugly hull.