Does the Summoner really suck?

[HerrDave]

Okay, I have been reading up on my favorite class and I am appauled to see people saying things like this v

1) Pets do half damage (So what is the point of having two for dps if one will do the trick on anything else)

2) Repairs and upgrades slower than everyone else.

3) Summons are inferior to towers late-game.

4) He doesn't scale well compared to the rest of the heroes.

The list goes on, but those four are what cought my eye and made me choke on my puffed up aristocratic pride.

So honestly, is he really that crippelingly bad? Like the apprentice (which was my old main) other classes just do everything better? If so, Trendy, buddy... Thats some baby-back ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Veetoo]

U can finish the campaign using only the towers of the summoners and a few buff beams, the summoner is one of the best builders in the game, you just do not want to use him as a DPS, EXCEPT, when you are farming armor. On a summoner you really need builder pets tbh

[Gogurt]

In my opinion, with some fine-tuning too his towers with specified stats, he's pretty fun.

[HerrDave]

Well thats good to hear, but is it true that his repairing is arse, as well as his pet damage?

[Softspokenman]

summoners value is in that his minions can be used as self healing walls that attack
he is one of the most valuable end game players just put his minions on a buff beam and you can win the entire campaign on nmhc the proof of this is the achievement Mythical Real Time Strategist

[Veetoo]

Originally posted by Classic Dave:

Well thats good to hear, but is it true that his repairing is arse, as well as his pet damage?

Try flash heal :) none is faster, pet damage, you should not bother with dps pets at all on a summoner

Edit and if for some reason u do wantt that, use one cat and one chicken

[HerrDave]

I was leaning towards a sort of hybrid. Right now I'm using the Heavy to pick away at kobolds and necromancers, and the Engineer for +29 building health etc. I had originally intended to get a monkey and a djinnlet to generate mana when I hover over enemy waves, switch to overseer mode and upgrade soldiers from afar. A harasser/builder of sorts. However with the pet damage cut in half, and the NMHC nerfs to player everything bar health is really scary to look at with my build. Have ye got any tips, gents? Why this is concerning to me is because the summoner is my highest level and figurative character of interest, second being the apprentice and countess. From what I've read, just about all of my choices seem to be outdone by the other classes... wat?

[Qwerty]

Originally posted by Classic Dave:

Okay, I have been reading up on my favorite class and I am appauled to see people saying things like this v

1) Pets do half damage (So what is the point of having two for dps if one will do the trick on anything else)

2) Repairs and upgrades slower than everyone else.

3) Summons are inferior to towers late-game.

4) He doesn't scale well compared to the rest of the heroes.

The list goes on, but those four are what cought my eye and made me choke on my puffed up aristocratic pride.

So honestly, is he really that crippelingly bad? Like the apprentice (which was my old main) other classes just do everything better? If so, Trendy, buddy... Thats some baby-back ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

They heal themselves, and make end game easier then it should be, much much much too easy really

[asas2007]

all what is here is my opinion(am not a pro or anything) u may ignore some :3

in insane mode i believe his towers do less dmg than the other characters.
however, in nm his towers do the highest dmg i believe.

pets on summoners do reduced dmg think about 1/5 not 1/2 of the orignal not sure though.
in nm pets and towers do more dmg than in inasne just incase you never knew.

mostly summoners towers are used to build self repairing walls just put a mage there and a strenght drain aura (with "slow+electric) and w8 forever for them to die and add a buff beam to the mix to make it even better.

his cast rate is indeed the worst however u dont realy need it that much <_< mostly use a genie and a monkey(highest pet range) to get mana from afar and even while upgrading stuff if u planing for a hyprid. further u can upgrade things using overlord mode <_< and flash heal covers over the repair.

for the scale i believe his minions hp and dmg do scale well not sure though.

[Franklyn Miller]

Look guys a summoner can have two tower healing pets for thoese long Afk games, He can have to dejins tha collect manner and do awsomw damage in real time; never mind the damage or even two boasting pets of different types making him a great benefit to thoese games where your towers dont seem strong enough. his spiders can effectivly clow the movements of orgers (spider minions well place keeps ogers at bay. Several modes give hime the ability to heal up while not taking any damage. the list goes on!!

[NoVa]

I don't agree practically with the whole point of this thread. Whoever says Summoner as a class sucks, try to complete some nightmare maps or some late game challenges without using him.

Let's add some of my thoughts specifically to some points of the thread:

1) False, not half, but 75% of actual damage.

2) Ever heard about Flash Heal?

3) False, minions are indispensable in the late game parts.

Anyway, try to get some knowledge or play the class properly for some time before posting only negatives. http://dungeondefenders.wikia.com/wiki/Scratch%27s_Summoner_Guide
Also I don't get why would you "hate" Summoner that much after just ~200 ingame hours. You probably didn't experienced those difficult late maps properly.

[asas2007]

Originally posted by NoVa czThePROcz:

1) False, not half, but 75% of actual damage.

Dmg of a melle chicken with 33982 base and 489 hero dmg on a non geared and respected hero wearing non super legendry customs were used in the testing:
1- Monk 851,810
2- Jester 537,796
3- Barbarian 453,741
4- Squire 438,092
5- Mage 437,556
6- Ev 384,998
7- Summoner 198,977
:3
and he didnt say he hated summoner :P he was just wondering why other players hates him ^^

[pew pew pew]

All classes have their pros and cons.

As a few people already said. Summoner is not required for beating the latest maps on NM but it makes it so much easier. To be honest I mostly build with a Summoner, Monk and Series EV.

You want to equip your best tower armor on Summoner and Monk. A Series EV without any gear boosts your defenses by 3.5 times. So you could also use a DPS Series EV to build Buff Beams.

However, I strongly advise to create specialized heroes before you start with hybrids ;) You can beat the game with three low/mid-geared heroes. Summoner and Monk will be specialized as tower heroes, Series EV doesn't need any gear as already said. As DPS char you play either as DPS Melee Monk or as DPS Jester. It's cool to have both though. Jester is a specialized Upgrader and supports your towers greatly with the Wheel O' Fortuna.

Once you get into the game and into Nightmare difficulty you can start with creating other specialized heroes or with a 2nd set of heroes - your hybrids :)

And in case you still doubt that Summoner is a really cool hero, take a look here ;)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=216908696

[HerrDave]

Originally posted by NoVa czThePROcz:

I don't agree practically with the whole point of this thread. Whoever says Summoner as a class sucks, try to complete some nightmare maps or some late game challenges without using him.

Let's add some of my thoughts specifically to some points of the thread:

1) False, not half, but 75% of actual damage.

2) Ever heard about Flash Heal?

3) False, minions are indispensable in the late game parts.

Anyway, try to get some knowledge or play the class properly for some time before posting only negatives. http://dungeondefenders.wikia.com/wiki/Scratch%27s_Summoner_Guide
Also I don't get why would you "hate" Summoner that much after just ~200 ingame hours. You probably didn't experienced those difficult late maps properly.

1) Okay, not as bad as I thought

2) Excessive spam when kobolds don't get sniped by archers

3) Thats good to hear

I don't hate the bloody summoner, I love him! I am just confused as to why everywhere I read about him, people point out these absurd negatives that I thought didn't even exist. I can understand not summoning an ogre in 3 seconds, but the repair time being nerfed into the ground?

The damage nerf on the pets staggers me, as I thought that was how he made up for not being able to use a weapon of any sort, its not like he can aim with the bloody things. (Yet)

I had intended to solo using him and just RTS my way through the world, now when I look at those negatives and the NMHC stuff, it looks more and more like the game is shoehorning my favorite class into a support, or ladder for the other heroes to stand on.

Originally posted by asas2007:

Originally posted by NoVa czThePROcz:

1) False, not half, but 75% of actual damage.

Dmg of a melle chicken with 33982 base and 489 hero dmg on a non geared and respected hero wearing non super legendry customs were used in the testing:
1- Monk 851,810
2- Jester 537,796
3- Barbarian 453,741
4- Squire 438,092
5- Mage 437,556
6- Ev 384,998
7- Summoner 198,977
:3
and he didnt say he hated summoner :P he was just wondering why other players hates him ^^

I've got a dps monk, builder apprentice, and hybrid countess in training right now. I can see the usefullness in having heroes that are great at doing something, as opposed to being a 'meh' jack of all trades.

The only reason I thought a hybrid was viable is because I thought that I could dip into combat to sweep up some mana really fast or to deal with necro-clusters. The countess' charge looked like a brilliant skill - rocket in doing great damage/hallway clearing, run back as mana crystals get sweeped up around ye.

It looks like everyone is saying a hybrid's towers are garbage and they can't survive in combat long enough to spend their mana. Then thats a bloody waste of skillpoints and I'm a crazy tosser with a side-order of fries!

Side note - Can the Summoner's pets attack bosses? I was hovering like an annoying fly infront of the ancient dragon, and my pets were just lookin' about the battlefield occassionally saying 'pwetty colors!'

[FDru]

I wasn't aware about summoner repair/upgrade rate being lower. Even if that's true, keep in mind that he can do that from anywhere on the map while being invulnerable.

Summoning speed can be slow, but you can summon 1 of each type of minion at the same time (in Overlord Mode) so you can just build your army of Archers while your Ogre is summoning.

He might struggle solo compared to other builder classes, but end-game no class can really solo defense maps anyway.

[NoVa]

Originally posted by Classic Dave:

Side note - Can the Summoner's pets attack bosses? I was hovering like an annoying fly infront of the ancient dragon, and my pets were just lookin' about the battlefield occassionally saying 'pwetty colors!'

They can if you are close enough to boss and your pets aren't targeting another mobs.

EDIT: I didn't want to say that you hate the Summoner, that's why I put it into quotation marks, if you understood that like that then accept my apologies.