Survival loot scaling to number of players question

[Borch TrzyKawki]

I think ive heard that when you add more player into a game only the max amount of items laying around and nunmber of mobs count increase.

playing with 4 players emulator is hardly bearable for me on survival. it seems to slow down the game in fps and actual time. wheres the mob count increase doesnt seem that big. So would it mean that playing survival with 1/2 characters would be almost the same in loot but lot better in comfort?

[do you have a boyfriend?]

depends on the map

[Black Mambo № 5]

I think ive heard that when you add more player into a game only the max amount of items laying around and nunmber of mobs count increase.

That is correct. So I'll just re-iterate briefly:
- Number of players doesn't improve loot quality.
- What it does affect is number of enemies that spawn for that given wave.
- Which in turn gets your more 'chances' to roll a loot item drop given the increased number of enemy count.
- I can't recall about the exact number of items laying on a map, but it has a hard cap, so it doesn't go over that limit. This might be map dependent, or it might be standard across the board. I just can't recall it. Maybe Plane or someone else can share the exact details.

Now for most maps the increase in additional mob count really isn't all that helpful. But for something like Moonbase 1 Crystal Survival Build, that can increase the enemy count quite a lot. This map already gets upwards of 8K+ enemies per wave reaching upto 12K by the end waves. Which means more 'chances' to roll loot items. So in such a map if you bring in extra characters via the emulator, you can possibly see a worthwhile increase in enemy count.

However as most already know 4 player splitscreen is quite taxing on the PC resources.

I had made a suggestion regarding giving players an option to start maps, or at least survivals with max player enemy count so that for people whose PCs can't handle the load of the 3 extra emulator controller characters, i.e. 4 player splitscreen still don't have to sacrifice on more item drops vs game stability and performance.

And it also adds a decent risk vs. reward -- that way as you don't actually have players in the map to help around in certain areas or boost at some places. Seems like a fair trade-off to me.

Right now if you want to increase player count but not give up on performance, there is a way to get it done, but its kind of tedious and slightly annoying. What I do is -- I bring in the extra characters, then once they are loaded and the enemy counter is increased I start the wave and wait till the enemy kill counter bar appears. Once it shows up, I quickly remove the extra characters. Once a wave is started it doesn't reduce the enemy count for the entirety of that wave. Of course you have to do this same process for each wave, which makes it tedious and annoying.
A simple toggle in the map selection menu which can be used to set max player enemy count seem feasible, IMO, barring any other technical limitations etc. that I might not be aware of.

[do you have a boyfriend?]

more characters the more items on the ground too

[stealthkiller22]

I just run 3 heros max to laggy with 4 and to annoying splitting screen have still got crazy good loot . Even when i was doing 2 max still found nice as loot

[SerOffline-Alot]

Moonbase does benefit from multiple hero's in, but you are right, sometimes it only goes up by 15-50, making the extra's not add much. for earlier waves, having more heros in increases the numbber by 150+. So keeping them in on early waves is highly advised, but as soon as you start getting close to it ending, don't worry too much, the lag might be to unbareable to just get them too leave.

[🐇]

Originally posted by Black Mambo № 5:

- I can't recall about the exact number of items laying on a map, but it has a hard cap, so it doesn't go over that limit. This might be map dependent, or it might be standard across the board. I just can't recall it. Maybe Plane or someone else can share the exact details.

Scaling for items on the ground is 100% 175% 225% 325% (doesn't scale past 4P). The base value is 40 on almost every map, but it's 55 on Akatiti.

So that means 40 70 90 130 items on most maps, 55 96 123 178 on Akatiti.

Originally posted by SerOffline-Alot:

So keeping them in on early waves is highly advised, but as soon as you start getting close to it ending, don't worry too much, the lag might be to unbareable to just get them too leave.

On Moonbase, I personally keep 3 heroes in until the final wave, then I add a 4th. Djinn HP scales 33% 50% 75% 100%, so reducing the # of players can make the djinn rush significantly more survivable and doesn't affect total drops too much. You do get less mana with fewer players, though, due to having fewer junk items left on the ground.

[SerOffline-Alot]

I keep forgetting about djin mechanics, I should probably just keep 3 in until last wave. Not that its much harder with 4 players.

[Black Mambo № 5]

Originally posted by Plane:

Scaling for items on the ground is 100% 175% 225% 325% (doesn't scale past 4P). The base value is 40 on almost every map, but it's 55 on Akatiti.
So that means 40 70 90 130 items on most maps, 55 96 123 178 on Akatiti.

Right, thanks for the numbers!
So if I bring +3 characters a start the wave and remove them once the wave begins -- does the dropped item count go back to 100% for the remainder of that wave or does it still stay at 325%?

[🐇]

It goes back to 100%

[SerOffline-Alot]

so having all 4 in game constantly is actually better.
I'm starting to like the "4 player emulation" option more and more every day.

[Black Mambo № 5]

Originally posted by Plane:

It goes back to 100%

Thanks again!

Originally posted by SerOffline-Alot:

so having all 4 in game constantly is actually better.

Looks like it yeah.
So for me boils down to bringing all 4 character and keeping them or just stick with 1 character. Becasue 2 or 3 total characters doesn't seem to be worth the effort getting more drops.

Originally posted by SerOffline-Alot:

I'm starting to like the "4 player emulation" option more and more every day.

Yeah, I think that option to emulate max mob count could also increase dropped item limit to 325%, or whatever player count you chose to emulate before starting the map.
The risk vs reward factor is still there as you are already facing increased HP and mob count with just 1 active player. Maybe even increase the difficulty for this setting a tad bit, like 5% more HP and damage.

Deciding between risking game crashes due to very low FPS and random freezes versus getting 225% more items on the map is something I believe should not be forced upon players!

Even with a non-potato PC, actually playing as 4 player splitscreen is just very taxing on the CPU. The disadvantages of having 4 actual players via the Emulator/Controller is quite high compared to getting 225% more drops.

Oh well...

[stealthkiller22]

Get a better pc problem solved also dont run on max setting limit as much performance as u can if u running couple split screen ideally the specs are targeted for one player only so the devs arent the ones to blame if u want more heroes in then beef up your pc my cpu running at 4.6ghZ overclocked lol

[Black Mambo № 5]

Not really a solution to buy a new PC for this when a toggle can be implemented.
Hopefully you weren't being serious with that comment, becasue that's just... let's say "dumb", to keep things polite.
Also learn to use punctuation more often.

[stealthkiller22]

You dont have to buy a pc you can buy parts for upgrades unless you are really outdated then would recommend.

Building yourself is alot cheaper to which is what i have done. Even with a toggle option implemented it kind of cheating the game when you should really have the players out on the field that how the game was designed.

[stealthkiller22]

Even though it would be great addition i somewhat agree with you but mostly disagree and it should never be implemented.

Players should be active for better loot all loot based games run this system they always have enemies scaled and loot scaled depending on number of players active . It feels like it cheating the game even if difficulty stayed in tact , games based on loot are designed like this.